Last modified: 2014-08-26 07:21:55 UTC
Based on preference change logs (since 2013-07-13) users across all wikis overwhelmingly change thumbnail size to be 250-300px (see attached database output graph) we should update the default to be 300px This shouldn't affect users who have purposefully changed the value, only readers, and users who have not changed the default
Created attachment 15872 [details] database output of logged preference changes since 2013-07-13
(In reply to Jared Zimmerman (WMF) from comment #0) > Based on preference change logs (since 2013-07-13) users across all wikis > overwhelmingly change thumbnail size to be 250-300px (see attached database > output graph) > > we should update the default to be 300px > > This shouldn't affect users who have purposefully changed the value, only > readers, and users who have not changed the default Do you mean we should do this for MediaWiki software itself, for Wikimedia sites, or both?
We have numbers for wikimedia sites, but my inclination is to think that these small image settings were added back when bandwidth and screensize was more of an issue than it is now, so at minimum I'd recommend that we do it for mediawiki sites, and if there is no major reason not to, then mediawiki itself.
Have created bug 67709 for the Wikimedia sites part of the request.
Before changing the default (which we want to do as infrequently as possible), it might make sense to add larger options to the user setting, to see whether users pick 300px because that's the ideal size, or simply because that's the largest on the list, and they would prefer even larger sizes if they existed.
See also [[mw:Requests for comment/Standardized thumbnails sizes]]. (In reply to Tisza Gergő from comment #5) > Before changing the default (which we want to do as infrequently as > possible), it might make sense to add larger options to the user setting, This was wontfixed for WMF cluster quite recently in bug 63440. Not sure that I quite understand what was going on there... I suspect this needs to be revisited by all involved (ops etc).
Gergő see the other bug i logged https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=67695 I'd prefer we choose a sensible "largest size" based on the users device, and page layout and kill the preference all together. But we can take this step by step.
Community consultation is here — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Time_for_the_semi-annual_enlarging_of_thumbnail_images and should wrap up on Wednesday July 16th.
Tisza Gergő, earlier this year, I asked for *one* larger image size to be added to preferences at bug 63440. Actually, the plan was to *remove three* smaller sizes and *add one* (one, that not coincidentally is already in use at two projects, whose stats you might be able to check). The bug was WONTFIXed because one minus three equals positive two (because less is more, even when we're not talking about u*ix help pages?). There was also a discussion in e-mail at http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikitech-l/2014-April/thread.html#75849
This still needs an Ops/performance review before it can go out.
I think this should be fine, as long as a) we do it consistently across all wikis, and b) it's done in a somewhat slow, staged rollout, with smaller wikis first. Yes, this will initially grow the amount of thumbnails on the Swift storage cluster, but that shouldn't be a big deal. We can eventually try to remove the older 220px thumbs. I'll see if I can generate some stats on what percentage of originals already have a 300px thumb today...
(In reply to Mark Bergsma from comment #11) > I'll see if I can generate some stats on what percentage of originals > already have a 300px thumb today... 14:28 < godog> 220,xxx,5515811 14:28 < godog> 300,xxx,7330212 That's the number of thumbnails on the swift cluster in the relevant size. Looks like a bunch of 300px images have already been generated (more than the 220? crazy). From everyone I've talked to today (Mark and Filippo), flipping the switch on this should be fine. Feel free to put it on the calendar for the week of the 25th sometime. (fyi: I'm on vacation all next week)
Change 154409 had a related patch set uploaded by Jforrester: Set default setting for thumbsize to 300px (index 5) not 180px https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/154409
(In reply to Greg Grossmeier from comment #12) > (In reply to Mark Bergsma from comment #11) > > I'll see if I can generate some stats on what percentage of originals > > already have a 300px thumb today... > > 14:28 < godog> 220,xxx,5515811 > 14:28 < godog> 300,xxx,7330212 > > That's the number of thumbnails on the swift cluster in the relevant size. > Looks like a bunch of 300px images have already been generated (more than > the 220? crazy). > > From everyone I've talked to today (Mark and Filippo), flipping the switch > on this should be fine. Feel free to put it on the calendar for the week of > the 25th sometime. (fyi: I'm on vacation all next week) I assume you meant this for bug 67709. Will schedule. ;-)
I don't think this should be done without further verification. It is the primary sense for preferences that registered users can set values but unregistered users cannot. I am not sure wether is is helpful in areas with unsufficient bandwidth and/or where providers limit bandwidth and/or set different prices if tresholds have been used out.
(In reply to Matthias Becker from comment #15) > I don't think this should be done without further verification. It is the > primary sense for preferences that registered users can set values but > unregistered users cannot. I am not sure wether is is helpful in areas with > unsufficient bandwidth and/or where providers limit bandwidth and/or set > different prices if tresholds have been used out. People hosting MediaWiki should always consider how they configure the wiki for their target audiences, including bandwidth appetite, I agree. However, I don't think that this should block a change for the MediaWiki software. Maybe you're concerned about changing this for Wikimedia sites? That's bug 67709 and is separate from this.
Change 154409 merged by jenkins-bot: Set default setting for thumbsize to 300px (index 5) not 180px https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/154409
Note that the merged changes above doesn't affect Wikimedia wikis, as the configuration for both $wgThumbLimits and the 'thumbsize' preference is overridden. A separate configuration patch is going to be needed for that; it seems like deploying one is tracked on bug 67709.
Thanks, Bartosz.
