Last modified: 2014-04-22 20:17:24 UTC
wikibugs has gone missing from #mediawiki.
wm-bot in #mediawiki-feed is not an acceptable replacement for wikibugs. For example, Quim added a comment here: bug 35508 comment 14. wm-bot reported this: <wm-bot> [bugzilla] (--- - created by: Sumana Harihareswara | priority: enhancement - Normal assignee Chad H.) [Bug 35508] List of Gerrit users - https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35508 I realize that this is a limitation of Bugzilla's RSS feed, but the output is still almost useless.
15 04:03:39 < Susan> Can someone please take a look at <https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=46144>? 15 04:16:04 < jeremyb_> Susan: i did 15 04:16:18 < Susan> Helpful. 15 04:16:19 < jeremyb_> (a while ago) 15 04:16:29 < jeremyb_> Susan: it was kicked. people didn't like the spamming 15 04:16:37 < Susan> I don't like people. 15 04:16:39 < Susan> I think we're even. 15 04:16:41 < jeremyb_> there was a user trying to get help and had trouble because of the flood 15 04:16:52 < jeremyb_> (wasn't my decision i only saw the scrollback) 15 04:17:03 < jeremyb_> Susan: anyway, there's #mediawiki-feed for now 15 04:17:10 < Susan> It's a terrible replacement. 15 04:17:15 < Susan> As it's missing wikibugs. 15 04:17:28 < jeremyb_> it has wm-bot providing a similar service 15 04:17:31 < jeremyb_> i witnessed it 15 04:17:50 < jeremyb_> and you've been there too 15 04:18:34 < jeremyb_> Susan: at some point we should either let it back into #mediawiki or configure it to not join (and remove the ban). also we could maybe get wikibugs to join #mediawiki-feed if you really care 15 04:18:48 < Susan> I do really care.
15 04:19:44 -!- wikibugs [~wikibugs@mchenry.wikimedia.org] has joined #mediawiki
*** Bug 46139 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
We actively had a user saying "This channel obviously isn't for support...two pages of scrollback and I've spotted 2 real people." This is a bad thing, contrary to what you may think. We've had *contributors* complaining about the bot(s) for the past couple of months/years. I really don't think two/three people saying "I LIKE THE BOT IN #MEDIAWIKI SO LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE" trumps the wider problems here...that the bot *needs* to go.
(In reply to comment #5) > We've had *contributors* complaining about the bot(s) for the past couple of > months/years. So then lets fix the problem, not just shut off a service people find useful. > > I really don't think two/three people saying "I LIKE THE BOT IN #MEDIAWIKI SO > LEAVE IT THE HELL ALONE" trumps the wider problems here...that the bot > *needs* > to go. Lets move it into #mediawiki-feed or another channel then. It provides a better service than wm-bot does (comment 1), and people find it useful. If the specific channel that it's in is a problem, move the bot, don't just kill it.
Hashar kicked it yesterday... Adding hashar to CC.
Lets take this the mailing list again... (But my two cents) If we kick any single bot, Gerrit produces a-lot more cruft lately than wikibugs... I, as having pointed out would prefer them all in a separate channel that is moderated and only the bots are voiced.
(In reply to comment #6) > (In reply to comment #5) > Lets move it into #mediawiki-feed or another channel then. It provides a > better > service than wm-bot does (comment 1), and people find it useful. If the > specific channel that it's in is a problem, move the bot, don't just kill it. Moving it's easier said than done, since it's not puppetized properly, but that can be worked around. Long term--wouldn't improvements to wm-bot be a good idea too?
(In reply to comment #8) > If we kick any single bot, Gerrit produces a-lot more cruft lately than > wikibugs... I, as having pointed out would prefer them all in a separate > channel that is moderated and only the bots are voiced. This. wikibugs is useful, it tends to notify about semi-interesting things that are happening (unless it notifies that someone CC'd himself on something, but that's another bug). gerrit-wm tends to spam about changes being merged to wmf branches.
(In reply to comment #7) > Hashar kicked it yesterday... Adding hashar to CC. I have not kicked wikibugs out of any IRC channel. Additionally, I have ZERO interest in wikibugs nowadays nor am I able to do anything about it. Sorry.
(In reply to comment #11) > (In reply to comment #7) > > Hashar kicked it yesterday... Adding hashar to CC. > > I have not kicked wikibugs out of any IRC channel. Additionally, I have ZERO > interest in wikibugs nowadays nor am I able to do anything about it. Sorry. Ah it was ^demon. Sorry for my bad memory.
wikibugs appears to be in #mediawiki right now and is happily reporting bug updates...
(In reply to comment #13) > wikibugs appears to be in #mediawiki right now and is happily reporting bug > updates... This required me unquieting and unbanning the bot and Tim re-adding the bot to the channel. (In reply to comment #9) > Moving it's easier said than done, since it's not puppetized properly, but > that can be worked around. It's pretty easy. You change "mediawiki" to something else (e.g., "mediawiki-feeds"). > Long term--wouldn't improvements to wm-bot be a good idea too? Absolutely. In the short-to-medium term, STOP KICKING THE BOT ON A WHIM.
I've created bug 46282 about kicking gerrit-wm instead, per myself & p858snake.
Upping priority, adjusting summary, reopening.
Bumping importance back down; wikibugs belongs on #mediawiki as it's always been. Recommend WONTFIX.
That's not a valid reason, imho. We need a way to tone down what it reports, if it's going to stay...the rate of bug reporting & commenting is many times greater than it once was. It's definitely gotten noisier over the years, which has reduced its utility.
(In reply to comment #18) > That's not a valid reason, imho. We need a way to tone down what it reports, > if > it's going to stay...the rate of bug reporting & commenting is many times > greater than it once was. It's definitely gotten noisier over the years, > which > has reduced its utility. Reduced it's utility -> in the main support channel. The bot *is* useful, I just think it drowns out conversation these days.
Could we move this debate to its target audience somehow, as I'm afraid that it won't be seen in this Bugzilla report? I understand that's hard for IRC, but maybe a generic mailing list or RFC?
We could schedule an IRC meeting, announce it ia wikitech-l mailing list, and tally votes/opinions on a wiki page.
(In reply to comment #18) > That's not a valid reason, imho. We need a way to tone down what it reports, > if it's going to stay...the rate of bug reporting & commenting is many times > greater than it once was. It's definitely gotten noisier over the years, > which has reduced its utility. I believe I already said as much somewhere around here, but wikibugs _is_ producing more noise lately, as it was broken by the recent Bugzilla upgrade and nobody has fixed it (or deployed the fixes to it, I can't remember). Right now, wikibugs is reporting CC changes, when it used to not report those.
(In reply to comment #22) > Right > now, wikibugs is reporting CC changes, when it used to not report those. This is what I just linked: bug 28402 aka bug 43130, which has a patch that someone needs to commit/review.
*** Bug 46282 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
de duping title, These are two issues that really should be discussed separately.
What about moving them to #wikimedia-dev instead of #mediawiki? I think most (actively involved) developers that are on IRC aren't disturbed by the feed. If they really must they're experienced enough to not be afraid of a simple /ignore. Though I speak only for myself, I believe those that do want the feed, would prefer it to be in context of regular conversation, not in a separate channel. It's where random bits of interesting things come by from (e.g. discussing a change, proposing and and then someone does it or files a bug about it). It doesn't work when in a separate channel. See also #mediawiki-parsoid, #mediawiki-visualeditor, #wikimedia-operations, #wikimedia-mobile etc. (and same for third parties such as #jquery-dev and webkit). The problem is mainly with #mediawiki being a support channel instead of dev channel, not with having notifications in a human-occupied irc channel in general.
Ori submitted I10a02bfe to get this done when there is approval.
Related URL: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/58661 (Gerrit Change I588f2eba8fba9603f33386e54e90c03e2bb5f5f0)
Note that wikibugs is now 30 % less chatty, as bug 28402 was fixed (bug 28402 comment 8). It would maybe deserve a second chance. :)
https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/57752/ , https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/57753/ merged. 00.31 -!- gerrit-wm [~gerrit-wm@manganese.wikimedia.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00.32 < mutante> bot is moving per merged changes 00.32 < James_F> Yup. :-) 00.32 < James_F> (Yay.) (CEST)
@Nemo, this bug is about wikibugs. Though some related change has been merged, wikibugs is not yet run from puppet so that change is irrelevant until that is activated. wikibugs is still in #mediawiki. Reopening.
(In reply to comment #31) > @Nemo, this bug is about wikibugs. Though some related change has been > merged, wikibugs is not yet run from puppet so that change is irrelevant > until that is activated. wikibugs is still in #mediawiki. Reopening. At the time the bug was closed, #mediawiki was blessèdly-free of bots. :-)
moved to #wikimedia-dev
test - wikibugs bot, please report in new channel, after having to kill concurrent bot instances started by old script
..
sorry, one last time
Sooo... it's still in #mediawiki, and not in #wikimedia-dev. Does it need additional poking? [Personally I prefer the bots in #mediawiki, but it sounds like I've lost this fight. :)]
(Updating summary to make it easier to search this bug)
Whose blood do I sacrifice to have this happen?
Chad's?
(In reply to comment #40) > Chad's? No, not me. I tried to move it out of #mediawiki, but people yelled at me. I don't care about this bot anymore. Removing myself from CC.
(In reply to comment #39) > Whose blood do I sacrifice to have this happen? How about this, instead: (In reply to comment #21) > We could schedule an IRC meeting, announce it ia wikitech-l mailing list, and > tally votes/opinions on a wiki page.
As this came up in the IRC office hour today, wondering whether to go via an RFC for this.
(In reply to comment #31) > @Nemo, this bug is about wikibugs. Though some related change has been > merged, > wikibugs is not yet run from puppet so that change is irrelevant until that > is > activated. Current status is also discussed in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/54984
