Last modified: 2014-02-12 23:53:52 UTC
We get a lot of messages only containing the source page and other information automatically added since [[bug:39467]] was implemented. If there is any way to prevent this, it would be helpful.
Sorry, that would be bug 39467.
Unfortunately, no. The feedback links are mailto links, which means when a user clicks on one it opens up an email with to/subject/body prepopulated. We have no way to know whether or not someone adds more info to the body or stop an email from getting sent if they do not.
So the solution is...wait until AFT5 exists for mobile, or?
Email spam is something that is best solved via improving the spam filtering on your inbox. As Arthur says we can't prevent this. I suspect some people send the blank email as an easy way to exit the mail application. I get the same messages and recently created a bot to combine these messages into an e-mail digest which checks message length. It sometimes incorrectly marks things as spam but keeps noise down for me. Feel free to explore using such a bot. I can also sign you up to mine if you want to give it a test drive (mail me directly not as a reply): https://gist.github.com/3981892
Okay. Do you have a way of creating a working spam filter for OTRS, which is our central mechanism of being contacted by any and all external people and is incessantly getting these emails? If not it's sort of a useless piece of advice :).
I'm not familiar with the system but whatever inbox it uses it should be possible to install some kind of spam filterer which should deal with this better. In this particular case you could route the e-mails to inboxes and use such a bot to forward the non-spam ones to OTRS.
Okay, not being familiar with the system is one explanation here. OTRS is a *web*-hosted application used by the Wikimedia movement for any and all centralised feedback. When someone emails the legal department, it goes to OTRS. When someone emails press@wikimedia, it goes to OTRS. Business requests, OTRS. Volunteer requests, OTRS. "someone has vandalised my article, remove it or I'll sue" - OTRS. It is not an email client, it is not just a mail server. It is not something where we can just "install some kind of spam filterer", nor can we up and decide to route emails externally: even if that's technically possible in OTRS, it would be very disruptive and problematic, and even if it *was not disruptive and problematic* it is the Wikimedia Foundation that runs the software and the machines it is hosted on and it is the Mobile team who are sending mobile users to these specific email addresses, so it doesn't seem like something random OTRS volunteers can just fix. At the moment the system is generating very little signal, a lot of noise, and making the work of our volunteers hard. If you overwork volunteers they leave, and our raison d'etre is sort of to do the opposite of that. If this can't be made to work I'd suggest killing it and throwing whatever resources go into it to making AFT5 work on mobile instead.
It's no secret that OTRS is the kind of thing that makes good people want to do bad things. I suppose alternatives include: * wait for AFT5 for mobile * Completely change how mobile feedback works to submit via form rather than via a regular email (which would enable us to do some modest amount of filtering, like preventing blank emails from being sent) How urgent is the problem? Just an annoyance, or a serious issue? If it's very serious, we can prioritize finding a better solution along with the rest of upcoming planned work.
It's getting fairly serious. The problem is it came at the same time as a redesign of the "contact us" page to make it human-readable, which *also* upped the problem, moving mobile feedback from "a pain in the tuchus" to "something that needs to be fixed because cumulative email volume from all sources is pain". I'm trying to kick out for more OTRS volunteers, but that's going to be a long-term, gradual improvement and doesn't help us right now :(.
The bit that confuses me is there is nothing stopping you from pointing all the emails on the contact page to anotheremailaddress@wikimedia-feedback.org or some other non wikimedia address which doesn't get routed through the OTRS system... I can understand your pain - I'm just trying to suggest a solution which has at least worked for me in reducing volume!
I think we may be talking across each other; can you explain in lay terms where people go to *to* send mobile feedback?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileFeedback?title=Special:MobileFeedback&returnto=Main+Page&feedbacksource=MobileFrontend#section_footer Each of the links here are e-mail addresses which are entering OTRS. They are all configurable and can point elsewhere.
From a MediaWiki page, from a config file...? That's a Special page. It's not editable by normal editors. And, sure, we can point it elsewhere... but having WMF-owned projects actively direct mail through a third party is Bad Mojo and would probably lead to legal having a small pulmonary embolism.
Oliver - I understand this. My point is your current options involve 1) changing these e-mail addresses to point to somewhere which can deal with spam better 2) disable certain email sources 3) keep it as it is 4) As Arthur suggests - posting feedback to wiki pages which gives us more control but would be a bigger chunk of work. If you let me know what you want to do we can get some work prioritised and done. Option 1 is trivial if you have an e-mail account. I'm not suggesting routing through a 3rd party - I'm just suggesting Wikimedia/Wikipedia having a separate e-mail inbox outside the OTRS one that collects these e-mails so people that do want to read them can. We can then organise a workflow where only the good e-mails are pushed to OTRS. Feel free to skype me if that makes things clearer!
Quite honestly, 1 would be the best of those *four* options - although I really like the idea of just having a form, as Arthur suggests.
Re-opening this for now. The issue doesn't appear to be resolved and we must remember that volunteer time—particularly OTRS volunteer time—is a precious commodity. If OTRS users are making a reasonable and polite request to reduce the noise level caused by mobile feedback being sent to them, it makes sense to continue to examine solutions (and ultimately implement one!).
This bug can fork in two directions now. I understand OTRS volunteer time is a precious commodity and I am extremely grateful with what they do, however I'm also wary that the bug list should at all times be actionable so developers can clearly understand what needs to be done. So far it is not clear what the call to action is. We can't stop people from sending a blank email under the current circumstances as that action lies within another piece of software - their email application. Could someone close this bug and open a new bug for one or both of these things: 1) An enhancement to MobileFrontend for feedback to be routed to a wiki page (we did this previously but experienced lots of spam that way) - this should detail contraints and the clearly define how this will be better. Note there are also potential issues with privacy in this method. 2) A change in the e-mail address to which feedback should go - this should be filed under product wikimedia, component site configuration - someone would need to work out what these e-mail address(es) should be. Thanks!
Neither of those things are optimal. Why is Arthur's suggestion of just having a form that turns into an email in the backend not applicable?
Oliver thats a variant of suggestion 1) As a side note, you may find you get more spam from using a form as I suspect many bots ignore mailto links but like to fill in forms (previously we got much more spam when we posted to a wiki page)
Then quite frankly, my suggestion is to turn it *off* and invest whatever effort is available into just making AFT5 work for mobile.
Thanks for reopening, MZ, I meant to do that with my comment yesterday. FWIW, the links for the mobile feedback page are set in configuration - look around line 18 in: https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/gitweb?p=operations/mediawiki-config.git;a=blob;f=wmf-config/mobile.php;h=986b4e7d8d83fae8bc44883a78fb13e49fc78421;hb=HEAD Part of the problem with option #1 (from Jon's comment [#14]) is that most of the links on the mobile feedback page are NOT mobile-specific - they are intended to cover the issues on the desktop site's contact us page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us). Because every project handles this differently, it was decided to use OTRS emails. I assume that the we *should* continue to support providing some sort of mobile experience for 'contact us', but perhaps the format ought to be rethought. I'm not sure we can get away with just turning this feature off. Also, while I am not clear on the feature of AFTv5, I assume it will not be a wholesale replacement for contact us, or mobile-specific feedback (particularly for technical problems, etc). It is probably worth bringing the product team into this discussion to help figure out a solution - I will make sure it's on their radar. When we implemented the mobile feedback page, we initially planned on implementing the solution using a form, but using email links was way easier and more expedient - and iirc, we needed to urgently put out the feedback page (I think it was relating to some issue with the iOS and/or android apps, but I can't recall for certain) and didn't want to spend the time grappling with things like implementing mobile catpcha, etc. Due to a number of the recent changes in MobileFrontend, I think implementing a vanilla, spam-friendly form for this will be fairly straightforward. But doing it right (to further prevent spam) will be complex. Either way, it will likely take a while to turn this solution around as the mobile team will be travelling throughout much of November, and this will still need to be prioritized against the other work on our plates.
(In reply to comment #19) > Oliver thats a variant of suggestion 1) > > As a side note, you may find you get more spam from using a form as I suspect > many bots ignore mailto links but like to fill in forms (previously we got much > more spam when we posted to a wiki page) Bots ignoring mailto links? Somehow I doubt spammers have given up on e-mail. ;-) I'm a little unclear on the value and purpose of this feedback. Can someone expand on this, please? My general thought is that if the idea is to _use_ the information being collected, surely putting it into a proper database, with columns for refer_wiki, refer_page, user_agent, comment, etc. would be saner. If this information isn't being put to good use, I'm not sure why you're collecting any of it in the first place.
(In reply to comment #22) > (In reply to comment #19) > > Oliver thats a variant of suggestion 1) > > > > As a side note, you may find you get more spam from using a form as I suspect > > many bots ignore mailto links but like to fill in forms (previously we got much > > more spam when we posted to a wiki page) > > Bots ignoring mailto links? Somehow I doubt spammers have given up on e-mail. > ;-) > > I'm a little unclear on the value and purpose of this feedback. Can someone > expand on this, please? > > My general thought is that if the idea is to _use_ the information being > collected, surely putting it into a proper database, with columns for > refer_wiki, refer_page, user_agent, comment, etc. would be saner. > > If this information isn't being put to good use, I'm not sure why you're > collecting any of it in the first place. The page in question is essentially intended to serve as a universal-ish mobile version of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:Contact_Us - along with a component for feedback specifically about the mobile site. You can see it at http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileFeedback or by expanding the footer on the mobile site and tapping 'Contact {{SITENAME}}'
I suggest we turn off the Contact --> OTRS feature and wait until we can deploy a better solution, which is probably some kind of a form: * As far as I know, there is no legal requirement for us to have Contact on the mobile version of our site. * My understanding (from a conversation with Philippe) is that a mobile version of Contact going to OTRS is opportunistic. e.g., people are viewing WP when they're on mobile -- wouldn't it be nice if they were able to let OTRS know if they saw a problem? It wasn't intended to be a critical part of how OTRS got alerted to issues and, in its current implementation, doesn't appear like it's become a critical part. * The costs of dealing with this stream, with all its problems, far outweighs the benefit (signal/noise ratio). To be transparent, it might be a while before we deploy a better solution for OTRS. We could mobile-fy AFT5, develop a form, etc., but those ideas would have to be considered alongside all the other things the mobile team could be working on, including mobile watchlist, photo uploads, etc. If that sounds good, once the Contact --> OTRS feature is turned off, I'll close this bug.
Sounds perfectly good to me. Quite honestly, I think desktop-OTRS-only is fine. OTRS is fundamentally *not* a "fix this typo" system: it's for people with problematic articles about them, photo donations, etc. A better solution not being deployed right now won't kill us if people still have desktop (which remains the main, although by far not the overwhelming, vector for WP access) as a place to access it.
I disagree that desktop-OTRS-only is fine. Our mobile pageviews are significant. Huge swaths of the world rely on mobile. Building to not include them is not okay. With that said: I agree with Howie that this should get turned off now. It's causing problems, and we don't have a path to fixing them. pb
We seem to have crossed wires here = "fine for now" != "good". It means we can live with not having it until a better alternative is available. If we don't have it live in the *long-term*, we're in trouble...but if we have it live but all our OTRS volunteers are burnt out because of how it was implemented, we get the same end result.
I have a stupid question: why can't mobile users just be directed to (the mobile version of) <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us>? It's functioned for years.
Created attachment 11285 [details] Screenshot of the WP:Contact us page on EN Wikipedia, as viewed in mobile (iOS 6)
MZ, because the WP:Contact us page on mobile renders like that ^ Not exactly ideal.
Even if the WP:Contact us page was styled better the information there is too much for mobile. On mobile we want to make the experience of contact us easy enough that anyone can give us feedback but also guard against spam (which we are obviously currently doing a bad job of). If we do decide to turn this feature off I'd request that we keep the email from reporting a technical problem. I am finding this source of information _____invaluable____ in development of the software for finding bugs in obscure devices. I still get a lot of blank e-mails but as said earlier in the thread I have found an easy way to filter these. Currently email for this goes via feedbacktest at wikimedia.org If this is going to OTRS by all means stop routing mail there but please do not stop it from reaching my mailbox. On a side note on OTRS can you not filter out emails to a certain address?!
Further, WP:Contact ONLY exists on enwiki. Every project (and language variant) handles their contact page differently and there's no trivial way to programmatically account for this so we can always reliably point to the right page via a 'contact us' link in the mobile footer.
And FWIW I agree with Jon that if we disable stuff in mobile feedback, we should keep the 'technical problem' portion (currently that already goes to a non-otrs email address, correct?). We could potentially keep 'general' as well and point that to the same address, though maybe that will make things too noisy for the mobile team.
(In reply to comment #30) > MZ, because the WP:Contact us page on mobile renders like that ^ > > Not exactly ideal. Sure, but that's a trivially fixable problem. Either add some additional CSS for mobile (like we do elsewhere) or refactor the page's HTML (or both). (In reply to comment #32) > Further, WP:Contact ONLY exists on enwiki. Every project (and language variant) > handles their contact page differently and there's no trivial way to > programmatically account for this so we can always reliably point to the right > page via a 'contact us' link in the mobile footer. This is a red herring. There absolutely is a trivial way to account for language variation of contact page titles. You define a MediaWiki page that's localizable (if there isn't one already for this purpose...); if it's the English default and you're on a non-English site, don't output a link. This capability has been built into MediaWiki for over half a decade now. :-) And if projects aren't interested in being contacted, there's no requirement or need to include a "Contact us" link. I'm not particularly tied to one solution or another for this bug and don't mean to make it sound as though I am, but the objections to using the standard contact us page feel pretty baseless to me.
MZ thanks for your points. I'm not sure convincing all the projects to change how they handle their existing contact pages counts as trivial, but I do think it is probably worth pursuing in the long run to avoid duplication of efforts with something like the mobile feedback page. In the short term, it sounds like we ought to update the mobile feedback page to only provide a link for technical feedback (a mailto, pointing to a non-otrs address). In the medium to long term, investigate standardizing a contact page location across the projects, coordinate with the projects, and provide a mobile-friendly view so feedback can be handled consistently between desktop/mobile experiences and still allow for mobile-specific feedback.
This should be fixed (at least for the interim) in https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/34219/ which will hide all the feedback links except for technical feedback, which now points to an email address specific to the mobile team. This should be deployed during our deployment window tomorrow afternoon (pacific).
