Last modified: 2009-06-23 19:16:15 UTC
Created attachment 6007 [details] Test program that finds problem Messages*.php files <pre> Here we have a interesting accessibility problem that just leaps out at you if you 1. use a text browser or any non-CSS device -- and, 2. are a user of languages with a certain grammar mentioned below. The problem In English the familiar sidebar of any Special Page has Views • Special page Toolbox • Special pages But imagine if it said instead Views • Special page Toolbox • Special page You might say "Of course, one is in 'Views' and one in 'Toolbox'! I don't see the problem." But try it out for a few years and you will see it is a usability disaster, no matter how near or far they are to each other there in the sidebar. For many languages, using the same translation for 'specialpage' and 'specialpages' is quite logical, as in their grammar plurals are the same as singulars -- in most situations, but not here, where extra emphasis very much needs to made that 'specialpages' should be "All special pages", "Special page groups"... however you might express it, as long as it is different from the value of 'specialpage'. The test program Attached is a test program to find Messages*.php files with this accessibility problem. The output is batched into two groups, ranked by seriousness: 2. Bug Cdo... These are the language files that need to be corrected. 1. Ace Av ... These are also in danger, as they only have one of the strings, and could contribute to an identical pair somewhere else. Indeed, even the "Qqq" file defines 'specialpages', but not 'specialpage'. The two must carry reminders that they must be different in _all_ languages. To use this program, save this file to languages/messages/spfinder.txt and run $ perl spfinder.txt Messages*.php </pre>
Message documentation at translatewiki.net is already sufficient. PS: specialpage message is not the one used there, but nstab-special Conditions where this would *potentially* cause confusion: 1) simple skin (not used that much) 2) non CSS-supporting text browser (very rare) 3) language where plural forms do not exists as such (less than half of them I guess) 4) there is poor translation for it (quite rare)
WONTFIX given comment 1.
You don't know how ridiculous this looks here in Monobook to Chinese text browser users. http://www.useit.com/alertbox/mega-dropdown-menus.html >Duplicating options makes users wonder whether the two occurrences >are the same or different. Changing status to LATER.
Better yet, see 8. Inconsistent Navigation in http://www.useit.com/alertbox/ia-mistakes.html and have a genuine Chinese person reclose this bug after using View>Page Style>No Style in Firefox and verifying all issues have been resolved.
And I will trade you the space of the two retired messages of bug 17710 for one extra message here. Whatever. Anyway issues remain. No hurry, but they remain.
Some ideas for the plural form for Chinese, 特殊頁組 特殊組 特殊種 特殊頁群 特殊頁族 特殊頁目 特殊頁櫃 特殊頁錄 特殊頁綱 特殊頁彙 特殊頁札 特殊群 特殊頁集 特殊集 特殊頁類 特殊類 總特殊頁 選特殊頁 擇特殊頁 特殊頁摘 逐特殊頁
Closing this bug. It is up to the translators to take advantage of the available message documentation to not to create confusing translations.
OK, prefixed "所有" to http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Specialpages/zh-hant http://translatewiki.net/wiki/MediaWiki:Specialpages/zh-hans
The changes was applied via r52293 and was reverted in r52303 for a moment. Please discuss the changes for the origin language (English) in http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support first. Making the translation different to the origin would cause more confusing for the functionality.
(In reply to comment #9) > Please discuss the changes for the origin language (English) in There is nothing wrong in English, unless you want to add redundant "List of" to somewhere. I can't judge the translations in question because I don't understand them.
Dear Chinese committers: the problem is that for MessagesEn : specialpage!=specialpages, but for MessagesZh*: specialpage==specialpages, causing the above bug I have described. Yes, sometimes "==" is OK, but not here! Therefore specialpage needs to be made different than specialpages for Zh*. 必分否則如上述很難看。 Please test in Firefox View>Page Style>No Style. I'added http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Support#specialpage_.21.3D_specialpages_.21.21 Thanks.
The revert in r52303 seems to be based on misinterpretation of comment #1, and discussion seems wayyyy off track. Checking the actual issue with the labels in zh and patching up...
Created attachment 6257 [details] Illustration of the described problem and solution that was mistakenly reverted
Restored in r52318. Chinese-language toolbar link for "special pages" ('specialpages' message) is now visibly distinct from the text of the "special page" tab link, making the sidebar links much clearer when viewing in text browser or simple skin. No other languages are changed.
