Last modified: 2014-04-28 16:32:35 UTC
Not really a bug, but a feature request: My idea is to transform the discussion pages to a real forum, as known from phpBB, Woltlab Burning Board or vBulletin. So each article would have one subforum, in which everyone can create a new thread. Other users can answer these threads or create new ones. It should only be possible to edit your own posts but not the ones from others. The forum structure could be like this: Wikipedia Forum -Wikipedia intern --Bugreports --Proposals and criticism -Articles --(Subforum for each article) -Users --(Subforum for each users) -Portals --(Subforum for each portal) and so on... I think this way the discussions would be much more effective and purposeful. At the the top of each discussion page there could be a notice where you are at the moment: You are here: [Wikipedia Forum] -> [Articles] -> [Foobar] -> [Delete this article?] The most important thing is that the discussion is really organized in forums, subforums, threads and posts, EXACTLY the way it is in the known Burning Boards. --> swEEper (swEEper@xcite-online.de)
(In reply to comment #0) > My idea is to transform the discussion pages to a real forum, as known from phpBB, Woltlab > Burning Board or vBulletin. So each article would have one subforum create a page called Article/Subforum > , in which everyone can create a new thread. Other > users can answer these threads or create new ones. It should only be possible to edit your > own posts but not the ones from others. This is a contradiction to the well-established Wiki principle. > > The forum structure could be like this: > Wikipedia Forum > -Wikipedia intern > --Bugreports > --Proposals and criticism > -Articles > --(Subforum for each article) > -Users > --(Subforum for each users) > -Portals > --(Subforum for each portal) > and so on... > At the the top of each discussion page there could be a notice where you are at the > moment: > > You are here: [Wikipedia Forum] -> [Articles] -> [Foobar] -> [Delete this article?] > > The most important thing is that the discussion is really organized in forums, subforums, > threads and posts, EXACTLY the way it is in the known Burning Boards. Dear Sweeper, I am using one of my standard MediaWiki installation for this purpose, i.e. current MediaWiki software can already be used to "simulate" your structure. See, how this could be achieved: Simply create a page with such a name Wikipedia_Forum/Wikipedia_intern/Bugreports/Proposals_and_criticism/Articles/Subforum/Thread_1 (The content of that page would be the plurality of postings in that Thread_1, simulated by a sections, i.e. use "==" posting nn "==" to separate the single postings) You can simply "open" sub-pages which correspond to the different levels in a forum/bulletinboard. The proposed navigation to higher levels is already partially created by MediaWiki; the underlying structure can easily be built up by using the [[category:]] feature of MediaWiki. I suggest, that you try for examples as subpages to your User:page , what I propose herein: - use many hierarchical sublevels, use "/" as separator in page names in combination with - using categorization i.e. [[Category: ]] - You can use category **sublevels** as well. - use section separators to indicate the different postings. The navigation bar you have proposed is currently present and automatically added from bottom level pages to top level pages, but not from top to down level, i.e. MediaWiki does currently not offer to show automatically all subpages/sublevels of a certain page. However, a navigation bar can already be added manually by using templates, see for example what I added on http://meta.wikipedia.org/Enotif and accompanying pages. Does this solve your problem ?
I must say I also propose the creation of real forums replacing the discussion pages. I am new to wikipedia and I tried to contribute to several discussions but I could not follow a single one of them. The discussion pages are usually messed up and people seldomly sign their entries. I find this to be very discouraging. ~~~~
I agree with comment #0 and #2. Often, wiki discussion pages can be hard to navigate, understand and to determine who is saying what. Also, it seems like there should be a different kind of page for discussion pages: right now they seem too much like regular article pages. And, in my opinion, forums just feel better for conversation and discussion of the topic at hand.
Talk pages are used for storing more than just discussions. I personally dislike the idea of a forum approach; a lot of wikis have a "remove personal attacks" policy and so forth. Following discussions can be difficult, but it is something one learns. Indentation is sometimes messed up or misused, etc. You could use a template similar to [[en:Template:Unsigned]] to mark unsigned edits; use the page history to see who added the entry, and when.
Forums can be used for more than just discussions also, by using the sticky feature or just by making an annoucement. I don't see how a forum-like discussion page relates to "remove personal attacks" policies. More people will be instantly familiar with a forum-like approach, which makes it harder to mess up/misuse indentation.
I ought to have made it clear. The reference to removal of personal attacks is one example of situations where it is desirable/required to be able to edit posts from others.
Ok, I understand now and see how that would be a concern. Readers would have to be given more privileges then they are on most forums. Not sure if this would be possible on existing forums, so a custom-designed one might be neccesary.
I'm very much in favour of this proposal and I am considering working on a prototype of this feature in my own wiki (literateprograms.org). If I complete it I'll post here again. My solution for deleting personal attacks and vandalism is simply to allow admins only to delete posts. This might seem too restrictive, but because discussion pages are not part of the "product" that readers are intended to see, I think it's okay to not remove such things immediately. Also, I don't believe that removing such posts is an effective way of reducing conflict.
Note: One of our Summer of Code projects, LiquidThreads, will be implementing/fulfilling this or similar.
(In reply to comment #8) > My solution for deleting personal attacks and vandalism is simply to allow admins only to > delete posts. This might seem too restrictive, but because discussion pages are not part of > the "product" that readers are intended to see, I think it's okay to not remove such things > immediately. Also, I don't believe that removing such posts is an effective way of reducing > conflict. Yes, but you neglect (for instance) the possibility of a template having to be substed per [[WP:SUBST]] (such as {{test}} or other talk-page template messages); a formatting error that causes the post to display in a confusing or obnoxious manner (such as when newbies try indenting their text with initial spaces); spam posts; etc. Wiki has shown the power and advantages of "soft security". And as for the case of personal attacks, [[WP:RPA]] is disputed, and it would be unreasonable to impose a unilateral technical decision that decisively rejects it. It should at least be a per-wiki option.
*** Bug 9111 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
This may go without saying, but since I folded #9111 into this one, make sure that the forum either participates in the watchlist system or has an equivalent feature.
Resolved if one would use the LiquidThreads extension.
*** Bug 17672 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to Siebrand Mazeland from comment #13) > Resolved if one would use the LiquidThreads extension. Or Flow.
