Last modified: 2007-01-20 17:07:35 UTC
A new Language Interface has been translated by [[ksh:User:Caesius|Caesius]] according to spelling rules approved by community vote [http://ksh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Klaaf:Schrievwies_vunn_d%C3%A4_Navvijazion_unn_d%C3%A4n_Lemmas#Einheitliche_Schrievwies_f.C3.B6r_de_Navigation]. It can be found [http://ksh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Ingerf%C3%A4j%C3%9F/MessagesKsh.php here]. Could you upload that as default language interface? Thank you. ~~~~
Alright, the wiki syntax does not work here. I hope you can read it anyway :)
I must modify the request, since the URL stated above is vandalized. I attach the new Language Interface. Please use that. Thank you. Dominik
Created attachment 3092 [details] Message interface
Forget about the attachment. The correct URL for the data is: http://ksh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Ingerf%C3%A4j%C3%9F/MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php The correct file name is: MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php
Can we have this as a proper patch; a unified diff against Subversion trunk, attached to the bug report, and marked as a patch? Thanks.
This ia a new file, so there the diff is equal to the file data itself. btw., when copying data, please take it from the wikisource (strip initial and final ~3 lines) since <nowiki>...</nowiki> does not protect html entities (which are likely not there, but better be safe than sorry:) Sorry for the hassle, that dbach has created with his premature attempt. While this file can imho now be added to svn without problems, final testing of related changes has yet to be completed, and two more modification are to follow, once that was successully finished.
This file can uploaded without problem, it has been extensively tested. "Final testing on related changes" relates to another idea of Purodha, but this will probably take some more time and should not block the use of our new language interface. Thank you.
(In reply to comment #7) Nothing is blocked, as already stated above.
I will prepare the patch
Created attachment 3095 [details] Patch based on complete message file Patch based on complete message file, messages for extensions moved to them. For questions on this patch and further patches please contact me at [[de:user talk:Raymond]] (in standard German if possible ;-) ). Already commited as r19464
I am sorry I do not understand the technical details - but the patch you provided is quite different from the file http://ksh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Ingerf%C3%A4j%C3%9F/MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php. See, for example, skin names - in the patch: $skinNames = array( - 'standard' => 'Shtandad', - 'nostalgia' => 'Noßtalljesh', - 'cologneblue' => 'Kölsch Blau', - 'smarty' => 'Päddingtonn', - 'montparnasse' => 'Mont_Panaßß', - 'davinci' => 'Da_Vintshi', - 'mono' => 'Monno', - 'monobook' => 'MonnoBooch', - 'myskin' => 'Ming_Skin', - 'chick' => 'Küüke' + 'standard' => 'Standaad', + 'nostalgia' => 'Nostaljesch', + 'cologneblue' => 'Kölsch Blau', + 'smarty' => 'Päddington', + 'montparnasse' => 'Mont Panass', + 'davinci' => 'Da_Vintschi', + 'mono' => 'Mono', + 'monobook' => 'MonoBoch', + 'myskin' => 'Ming Skin', + 'chick' => 'Höhnche' ); in the original file: $skinNames = array( 'standard' => 'Standaad', 'nostalgia' => 'Nostaljesch', 'cologneblue' => 'Kölsch Blau', 'smarty' => 'Päddington', 'montparnasse' => 'Mont Panass', 'davinci' => 'Da_Vintschi', 'mono' => 'Mono', 'monobook' => 'MonoBoch', 'myskin' => 'Ming Skin', 'chick' => 'Höhnche' I am wrong here? Thank you for your explanation Dominik
Is it so that every value set before has to be deleted and a new value added?
My patch is a diff against the old language file. We cannot copy a complete file to the servers. BTW: there were several errors in the file. I have copied&pasted section by section, so there are little differences by spacings but the value remains unchanged (e.g. 'Kölsch Blau')
Thank you! Concerning errors: anything we should do about them now?
The actual file can be downloaded from http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/phase3/languages/messages/MessagesKsh.php?view=log But another issue I see now: the tooltips where moved from monobook.js to separate messages with r19036 (see r19100 for actual message names). You have to check and readd.
(In reply to comment #12) > Is it so that every value set before has to be deleted and a new value added? Subversion works on "diffs", so if a line gets changed, it'll show up in the patch prefixed with a "-", with the replacement line under it (prefixed with a "+"). In general, we prefer normal patches because it makes it so much easier for someone to review the changes on BugZilla, and integrate them into MediaWiki.
See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer_Diskussion:Raymond The suggestion, that dbach made, was wrong. He should have better let that be handled by people who already know better, waaht to do.
A quick rundown of what should be done (before Raimond Spekking made the patch, and once debugging/testing was completed): 1. create MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php from http://ksh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Ingerf%C3%A4j%C3%9F/ MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php 2. create MessagesKsh_ksh_rt.php from http://ksh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Ingerf%C3%A4j%C3%9F/ MessagesKsh_ksh_rt.php 3. update MessagesKsh.php from http://ksh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Ingerf%C3%A4j%C3%9F/MessagesKsh.php With the goal to have two variants of Ripuarian to choose from, with a default (fallback) set in MessagesKsh.php What can we do now? Imho: 1. Remove the patch, rework it so as to create MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php and insert 'ksh_ksh_wreka' messages for extensions. Then appy reworked patch. 2. Possibly create MessagesKsh_ksh_rt.php mainly as a copy of previous MessagesKsh.php Other things imho have to wait until bugs are fixed and testing was successful. MessagesKsh_ksh_rt.php - There is one known bug to be fixed, and several text updates pending but not complete/tested. Maybe, we can already supply a 1st chunk of them already soon. MessagesKsh.php setting fallback - does not work in test installation. Yields blank pages and other problems, likely related with $extraUserToggles and nolangconversion.
The problem here is not my lack of technical knowledge, but rather the totally different agenda that Purodha and me are following: - Purodha wants several dialect variants - we (e.g. the main active users of the ksh-wikipedia: Caesius, Jan Wellem, and Jüppsche) want at least one working interface in the main dialect, and possibly also other variants, if this is technically feasible. If this is not feasible right now, we would rather have ONE interface in the main dialect FOR THE MEANTIME. This is what I meant when I said: Purodha wants to test some related ideas, but that should not block us from using the new interface
Folks, please be agreed. What is the main dialect? Is the actual patch good for all? Should we revert? I do not know if someone will code a language/dialect conversion. Maybe we can use separate ksh message files as complete distinct languages. But I do not know where in MediaWiki I can add another language.
Okay, let's clarify that. In August, a vote was held, and it came out that everybody but Purodha wanted the interface changed to a documented spelling of Cologne dialect. The vote can be found here: http://ksh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Klaaf:Schrievwies_vunn_d%C3%A4_Navvijazion_unn_d%C3%A4n_Lemmas#V.C3.BCrschlag For non-ripuarian speakers: 7 pro votes were by Düüvelskääl/dbach, Caesius, Manes, Jan Wellem, Jüppsche, Schäl Sick, Thidrek 1 contra vote was by Purodha Caesius translated the new interface and finished it yesterday. In the meantime, a compromise was proposed by Purodha: to have different dialect/spelling coversions. Purodha promised that could be done soon from the technical side, and although no formal vote was held, I am sure that everybody would agree if it works, as long as the new interface is the default for new users. As I understand, however, coversions do not work right now. Therefore, the vote is simple and clear: the new patch is what the community wants.
(PS concerning the vote: 8 pro votes instead of 7, I forgot to count Helesike)
One problem is dbach's lack of technical background knowledge, another may be his unwillingness to cooperate, listen, discuss, whatsoever, paired with lack of trust and false insinuatios from his side. If he was listening, he knew that Purodha is developing exactly what the majority in various discussions (inside and outside the Ripuarian Wikipedia) deemed necessary & workable, and the he shall be getting exactly what he wants, only not exclusively that. > I do not know if someone will code a language/dialect conversion. This is planned but not likely to be workable in the very near future. Thus we will begin with a null-conversion similar to what the Serbian, and several others, started off with. > Maybe we can use separate ksh message files as complete distinct languages. I think, we can. That would mean, following the suggestion already made, to add MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php and MessagesKsh_ksh_rt.php now or rsn, after reverting the current patch which is both wrong, and almost completely useless as it does not what dbach inteded with it. > But I do not know where in MediaWiki I can add another language. I do know all that, have it ready in a test installation that the author of the MessagesKsh_ksh_wreka.php translation has been using, and I shall come up with the due patches once I have done the necessary final steps. (I hate supplying half-ready stuff)
Almost all of the above statement (comment #21) by dbach which collided with mine (comment #23) is wrong, biased, incomplete, and certainly of no concern here. dbach's only concern and focus is the Ripuarian Wikipedia. Here is not the place to carry out fights internal to a specific Wiki. So as to further the development of MediaWiki software, I suggest to ignore him, proceed as suggested before, and whe the work is done, he will see that he has gotten, what he has been so vigorously fighting for.
Purodha is very right that I am concerned about the ripuarian wikipedia. But aren't we discussing a patch for the ripuarian message interface? Purodha is also right concerning my lack of trust into him, which is shared by Caesius, Jan Wellem, and Jüppsche, who have proposed yesterday to take away Purodha's administrator rights in the Ripuarian wikipedia should he any longer block the new message interface. The community is quite tired after 5 months of cooperating, listening, discussing with Purodha who uses his technical knowledge and his robots to dominate the Ripuarian Wikipedia and has successfully used it as a platform to promote a dialect transcription that he invented, and which is interesting, but the majority finds it very hard to read. Please don't hesitate to use the new patch. As soon as Purodha has completed his testing, we will be happy to have different interfaces at the same time. For the meantime, which is likely to last longer than just a few days, the ripuarian wikipedia needs a workable solution.
All right, that is *enough*. Our bug tracker is *not* the place to have this argument. If there are further updates to be made to the Ripuarian language file, please submit the appropriate patches attached to a new bug. If there are new localisations, e.g. language variants, please open a new bug report, *clearly label* what it's about, and attach patches. "MessagesKsh.php" should contain "pure" Ripuarian strings, if there is such a thing.
He does not understand it: - Here we are concerned with MediaWiki, not the Wikipedia. - His proposed patch does not provide what he wants. - Caesius delivered his final version yesterday. Now I am going to integrate it with the rest, starting the day after tomorrow. Had not dbach kept me busy responding to his counterproductive interventions at various places, I had started already earlier today. (I apologize for dbach's inconsiderate behaviour, and lies)
(comment #27 crossed with comment #26) Thank you Rob, I very much agree with you. > "MessagesKsh.php" should contain "pure" Ripuarian strings, if there is such a thing. There are several dozen dialects/spellings. Hence we need switching betweeen variants. I'll get that done, and submit the patches.
I am sorry, I was sure we had already reached an agreement within the ripuarian wikipedia, which was apparently not the case. As ksh-Admin I will now try to solve that first, and then submit the issue again. Anyway, thank you for now.
Just for the records: There was an agreement on the Ripuarian WP indeed. I communicated exactly what was agreed upon, once dbach asked here for something else (wilfully or out of technical incompetence, afaik he's not a programmer) At least he did not tell anybody, or coordinate what he was doing, otherwise the trouble had been avoided.
