Last modified: 2007-05-09 08:22:49 UTC
Hello, please rename the Namespaces (ns) on the vo.Wikipedia as follows (please keep "redirects" from the old namespaces so that they still keep working but linking to the new one): ns:-2/ ns:Media -> Nünamakanäd ns:-1/ ns:Special -> Patikos ns:1/ ns:Talk -> Bespik ns:2/ ns:User -> Geban ns:3/ ns:User_talk -> Geban_bespik ns:4/ ns:Project -> Vükiped ns:5/ ns:Project_talk -> Vükiped_bespik ns:6/ ns:Image -> Magod ns:7/ ns:Image_talk -> Magod_bespik ns:8/ ns:MediaWiki -> Sitanuns ns:9/ ns:MediaWiki_talk -> Sitanuns_bespik ns:10/ ns:Template -> Samafomot ns:11/ ns:Template_talk -> Samafomot_bespik ns:12/ ns:Help -> Yuf ns:13/ ns:Help_talk -> Yuf_bespik ns:14/ ns:Category -> Klad ns:15/ ns:Category_talk -> Klad_bespik Reference site: [[vo:User:Spacebirdy]] where the community did the translations. Now they asked me to bring this request here. [http://is.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Notandaspjall:Spacebirdy&curid=4237&diff=22565&oldid=22551] Many thanks in advance, Elisabeth Anderl [[:wikt:is:Notandi:Spacebirdy]]
*** Bug 8070 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Please note that ns:4 and ns:5 are different for the vo.Wiktionary! ns:4/ ns:Project -> Vükivödabuk ns:5/ ns:Project_talk -> Vükivödabuk_bespik thanks
other than Project/Project talk, are these generic (not Wikimedia-specific) so they can go into MediaWiki?
(In reply to comment #3) > other than Project/Project talk, are these generic (not Wikimedia-specific) so > they can go into MediaWiki? As You can see here http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8070 everything except Project/projectalk are for all Volapük equal.
okay. can you provide a translation of the word "Project" into Volapük, and a translation for "$1 talk" ("$1 bespik"?).
I cannot, since the community did the translations, but I left Smeira and Manie messages who were the main translators, they will tell us soon.
The Volapük word for "Project" is "Proyeg", and the word for "talk" is indeed usually "bespik". But what exactly is the "$1" in "$1 bespik"? Note that, in Volapük, the normal order is possessed- possessor, not possessor-possessed as in English; so something like "John's talk" would be "talk of John" (or "bespik ela John", in Volapük). I sometimes had to do such order changes while translating the system messages into Volapük. If the $1 is the possessor, then maybe "$1 bespik" should become "bespik ela $1", but if it is not the possessor then it shouldn't. Can you clarify?
In this case, $1 is replaced with the namespace name, e.g. "Project talk", meaning, "discussion about Project".
Oh, in this case no change in order is necessary. But since the semantic relation between the two elements is not adjectival (rather: talk about project), it seems better to add a punctuation mark between the two; say: "Proyeg: bespik" or "Proyeg/bespik" or "Proyeg - bespik" (i.e. "$1: bespik" or "$1/bespik" or "$1 - bespik". My personal preference would go to the hyphen " - ", in case it has no other uses.
does this apply to the other namespaces as well, e.g. "Geban bespik" -> "Geban - bespik"?
In general, yes. Hmmm... if this "$1 bespik" is meant only for namespeaces, it would be possible to make a coumpound word with the connecting vowel "i" (since the relation is always accusative, right? "To discuss the project", "to discuss the user"...), and so have "Proyegibespik", "Gebanibespik", or, in general, "$1ibespik". Is that OK? For any choice: in case, say, one of the final outputs ends up grammatically incorrect, can I come back here and ask for a correction?
yes, you can change it later, but it's best not to, because it will break any links to the old name (but links to the English name are always okay). does this look correct? NS_MEDIA => 'Nünamakanäd', NS_SPECIAL => 'Patikos', NS_MAIN => '', NS_TALK => 'Bespik', NS_USER => 'Geban', NS_USER_TALK => 'Gebanibespik', # NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace NS_PROJECT_TALK => '$1ibespik', NS_IMAGE => 'Magod', NS_IMAGE_TALK => 'Magodibespik', NS_MEDIAWIKI => 'Sitanuns', NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK => 'Sitanunsibespik', NS_TEMPLATE => 'Samafomot', NS_TEMPLATE_TALK => 'Samafomotibespik', NS_HELP => 'Yuf', NS_HELP_TALK => 'Yufibespik', NS_CATEGORY => 'Klad', NS_CATEGORY_TALK => 'Kladibespik', also, the current project name is "Wikipedia" (this is also the meta namespace name, so the default project talk namespace would be Wikipediaibespik). do you want this changed at the same time?
'Nünamakanäd' OK. 'Patikos' OK. 'Bespik' OK. 'Magod' OK. 'Geban' OK. 'Samafomot' OK. 'Yuf' OK. 'Klad' OK. "Project name": The other Volapükists had already decided to call it 'Vükiped', a name that even has an appropriate Volapük meaning (something like 'the keeping (of information) among (us)'). Can you change the project name (# NS_PROJECT, I suppose?) to 'Vükiped'? NS_MAIN is the "Main" namespace, right? I suppose the best translation is something like "mainspace", which is 'Cifaspad' in Volapük. On the "talk" ('bespik') categories: yes, I see already a problem in this list of examples. 'Sitanuns' = "system messages" (is this, by the way, the meaning of MediaWiki? What goes in that namespace?), which is a plural word; and plural words can't be the first part of compounds with the -i- linking vowel (they have to be singular). So we need something more flexible here, that can take plurals or (undeclinable) foreign words also. I now propose: 'bespik dö $1' (instead of '$1ibespik') and therfore also: 'Bespik dö geban' (User talk) 'Bespik dö magod' (Image talk) 'Bespik dö proyeg' (Project talk) 'Bespik dö sitanuns' (Mediawiki talk) 'Bespik dö samafomot' (Template talk) 'Bespik dö yuf' (Help talk) 'Bespik dö klad' (Category talk) By the way -- if in the future I have furher corrections, do I come back to this specific page (bug 8069), or do I start a new bug?
the MediaWiki namespace mostly stores interface messages. there are a few other things (like the bad image list) which aren't messages. the main namespace has no name, although when it's referred to it's usually called "(main)" (at least in English). this is a normal message any sysop can change (see Special:Allmessages), not part of the namespace list. btw, you can have different formats for each namespace, so there could be "Gebanibespik" but "Bespik dö sitanuns". anyway, based on this the list now looks like: NS_MEDIA => 'Nünamakanäd', NS_SPECIAL => 'Patikos', NS_MAIN => '', NS_TALK => 'Bespik', NS_USER => 'Geban', NS_USER_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_geban', # NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1', NS_IMAGE => 'Magod', NS_IMAGE_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_magod', NS_MEDIAWIKI => 'Sitanuns', NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_sitanuns', NS_TEMPLATE => 'Samafomot', NS_TEMPLATE_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_samafomot', NS_HELP => 'Yuf', NS_HELP_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_yuf', NS_CATEGORY => 'Klad', NS_CATEGORY_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_klad', the sitename and metanamespace will be "Vükiped", so the project talk name will be "Bespik_dö_Vükiped".
OK, I see. So I'll choose the compound form in the cases in which it looks "sharper", and use the "bespik_dö_X" form in the cases where it doesn't. Then, assuming that, since the MediaWiki space basically stores interface messages and thus is reasonably translatable as "system messages" (= 'sitanuns'), my list would then be: NS_MEDIA => 'Nünamakanäd', NS_SPECIAL => 'Patikos', NS_MAIN => '', NS_TALK => 'Bespik', NS_USER => 'Geban', NS_USER_TALK => ''Gebanibespik'', # NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1', NS_IMAGE => 'Magod', NS_IMAGE_TALK => 'Magodibespik', NS_MEDIAWIKI => 'Sitanuns', NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_sitanuns', NS_TEMPLATE => 'Samafomot', NS_TEMPLATE_TALK => 'Samafomotibespik', NS_HELP => 'Yuf', NS_HELP_TALK => 'Yufibespik', NS_CATEGORY => 'Klad', NS_CATEGORY_TALK => 'Kladibespik',
okay, that should be changed now. let me know if anything isn't working right... (you'll probably want to go through and fix any broken links)
(In reply to comment #16) > okay, that should be changed now. let me know if anything isn't working > right... > > (you'll probably want to go through and fix any broken links) Hello, this is now a bit of a problem, because every page which was in the Wikipedia-namespace can't be reached anymore because Wikipedia: redirects now to en.wiki O.o How can this be solved? The other old namespacenames are working http://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Spacebirdy Thanks in advance for any advice.
sorry, this should be fixed now. (Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk will redirect to the new project namespace.)
(In reply to comment #18) > sorry, this should be fixed now. (Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk will redirect > to the new project namespace.) Cool, thanks a lot. Please could the project namespaces for Wiktionary can be set also # NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1', "Vükivödabuk" "Bespik_dö_Vükivödabuk". As a precaution I already moved now all pages in ns:Wiktionary: to Vükivödabuk in order to prevent the same thing that happend on vo.wiki.
okay, done. in addition, i fix two "lost" pages on vowiki ([[Vükiped:Sababog]], [[Vükiped:Sid]]) and one which is now duplicated, the "broken" one is renamed to [[Vükiped:Daväls pö kipedalef de fünam ela Wikimedia/ broken]]. because you moved pages to the new namespace, and left redirects, none of those could be renamed automatically (the two pages now have the same name). either you can delete the redirects and i can fix them, or else i can rename those to / broken as well.
(In reply to comment #20) > okay, done. in addition, i fix two "lost" pages on vowiki > ([[Vükiped:Sababog]], [[Vükiped:Sid]]) and one which is now duplicated, the > "broken" one is renamed to [[Vükiped:Daväls pö kipedalef de fünam ela Wikimedia/ > broken]]. > > because you moved pages to the new namespace, and left redirects, none of those > could be renamed automatically (the two pages now have the same name). either > you can delete the redirects and i can fix them, or else i can rename those to / > broken as well. Argh, sorry for that, I can't delete since I am no sysop, we have to wait for Smeira or Manie to do so.
OK, I'll have a look at that -- I'm sysop in both wikis. This will have to wait till tomorrow though -- I've got quite a busy day right now. But tomorrow I should be able to take care of it.
I've deleted those eight redirects on vo-wiki :))
Danö, Manie! I will try to add a few help pages in the Vükiped namespace, and do other changes in the existing pages. Are there any loose redirects left in Vükivödabuk (Wiktionary)? I couldn't find any when I looked. Thanks to the bugzilla people! A final question -- if there are any further problems, should we come back to this very page (Bug 8069), or should we start a new bug?
No there are none left, hopefully the old pages can now be fixed.
One question: I started changing all category and image references from [[Category:XX]] and [[Image:XX]] to [[Klad:XX]] and [[Magod:XX]] (using the pywikipedia bot replace.py, with the option -start:!). Every time the bot fetches 50 pages, it issues a number of warning messages with the form: WARNING: Outdated family file wikipedia namespace['vo'][-2] is set to default ('Media'), but should be 'Nünamakanäd' (etc. one for each namespace). Should the bugzilla people change this family file specification somwhere? Or should I do it somewhere on my pywikipedia folder?
Another little question: I can change e.g. [[Category:XXX...]] to [[Klad:XXX...]] with replace.py (from pywikipedia bots) when it occurs in content pages. But if it occurs in Category pages (e.g., the Category "Zifs in Rumän" 'cities in Romania' contains [[Category:Zifs]] to make it a subcategory of "Zifs" 'cities'), then I can't change it with replace.py. Do you happen to know what I should do in order to change [[Category:XX]] links automatically also in Category pages?
okay, the missing pages on vowiktionary should be back again. pywikipedia: this isn't part of mediawiki/wikimedia... you'll need to fix that separately, or contact its author (i don't know anything about it). it could be that not knowing about the new names is confusing it. if there are any problems with the names of namespaces, you can reopen this bug, otherwise it's best to open a new one.
River, thanks a lot for all Your efforts! Sérgio, You can contact me if You still need help with Your bot.
