Last modified: 2007-05-09 08:22:49 UTC

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Bug 8069 - Please rename Namespaces on vo.wikipedia.org
Please rename Namespaces on vo.wikipedia.org
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: Wikimedia
Classification: Unclassified
Language setup (Other open bugs)
unspecified
All All
: Normal normal with 1 vote (vote)
: ---
Assigned To: Nobody - You can work on this!
http://vo.wikipedia.org
: shell
: 8070 (view as bug list)
Depends on:
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2006-11-28 18:13 UTC by spacebirdy
Modified: 2007-05-09 08:22 UTC (History)
1 user (show)

See Also:
Web browser: ---
Mobile Platform: ---
Assignee Huggle Beta Tester: ---


Attachments

Description spacebirdy 2006-11-28 18:13:00 UTC
Hello, please rename the Namespaces (ns) on the vo.Wikipedia as follows (please
keep "redirects" from the old namespaces so that they still keep working but
linking to the new one):

ns:-2/ ns:Media -> Nünamakanäd

ns:-1/ ns:Special -> Patikos

ns:1/ ns:Talk -> Bespik 

ns:2/ ns:User -> Geban

‎ns:3/ ns:User_talk -> Geban_bespik

‎ns:4/ ns:Project -> Vükiped

ns:5/ ns:Project_talk -> Vükiped_bespik

ns:6/ ns:Image -> Magod

ns:7/ ns:Image_talk -> Magod_bespik

ns:8/ ns:MediaWiki -> Sitanuns

ns:9/ ns:MediaWiki_talk -> Sitanuns_bespik

ns:10/ ns:Template -> Samafomot

ns:11/ ns:Template_talk -> Samafomot_bespik

ns:12/ ns:Help -> Yuf

ns:13/ ns:Help_talk -> Yuf_bespik

ns:14/ ns:Category -> Klad

ns:15/ ns:Category_talk -> Klad_bespik


Reference site: [[vo:User:Spacebirdy]] where the community did the translations.
Now they asked me to bring this request here.
[http://is.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=Notandaspjall:Spacebirdy&curid=4237&diff=22565&oldid=22551]

Many thanks in advance,
Elisabeth Anderl [[:wikt:is:Notandi:Spacebirdy]]
Comment 1 Aryeh Gregor (not reading bugmail, please e-mail directly) 2006-11-28 18:16:38 UTC
*** Bug 8070 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Comment 2 spacebirdy 2006-11-28 18:32:52 UTC
Please note that ns:4 and ns:5 are different for the vo.Wiktionary!

‎ns:4/ ns:Project -> Vükivödabuk

ns:5/ ns:Project_talk -> Vükivödabuk_bespik

thanks
Comment 3 River Tarnell 2007-05-06 08:02:57 UTC
other than Project/Project talk, are these generic (not Wikimedia-specific) so 
they can go into MediaWiki?
Comment 4 spacebirdy 2007-05-06 08:32:15 UTC
(In reply to comment #3)
> other than Project/Project talk, are these generic (not Wikimedia-specific) so 
> they can go into MediaWiki?

As You can see here http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8070
everything except Project/projectalk are for all Volapük equal.
Comment 5 River Tarnell 2007-05-06 08:50:24 UTC
okay.  can you provide a translation of the word "Project" into Volapük, and a 
translation for "$1 talk" ("$1 bespik"?).
Comment 6 spacebirdy 2007-05-06 09:03:38 UTC
I cannot, since the community did the translations, but I left Smeira and Manie
messages who were the main translators, they will tell us soon.
Comment 7 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-06 10:11:24 UTC
The Volapük word for "Project" is "Proyeg", and the word for "talk" 
is indeed usually "bespik". But what exactly is the "$1" in "$1 
bespik"? Note that, in Volapük, the normal order is possessed-
possessor, not possessor-possessed as in English; so something 
like "John's talk" would be "talk of John" (or "bespik ela John", in 
Volapük). I sometimes had to do such order changes while translating 
the system messages into Volapük. If the $1 is the possessor, then 
maybe "$1 bespik" should become "bespik ela $1", but if it is not the 
possessor then it shouldn't. Can you clarify? 
Comment 8 Rob Church 2007-05-06 10:20:18 UTC
In this case, $1 is replaced with the namespace name, e.g. "Project talk",
meaning, "discussion about Project".
Comment 9 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-06 16:13:11 UTC
Oh, in this case no change in order is necessary. But since the 
semantic relation between the two elements is not adjectival 
(rather: talk about project), it seems better to add a 
punctuation mark between the two; say: "Proyeg: bespik" 
or "Proyeg/bespik" or "Proyeg - bespik" (i.e. "$1: bespik" 
or "$1/bespik" or "$1 - bespik". My personal preference would 
go to the hyphen " - ", in case it has no other uses.
Comment 10 River Tarnell 2007-05-07 14:05:22 UTC
does this apply to the other namespaces as well, e.g. "Geban bespik" -> "Geban 
- bespik"?
Comment 11 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-07 14:10:09 UTC
In general, yes. Hmmm... if this "$1 bespik" is meant only for 
namespeaces, it would be possible to make a coumpound word with the 
connecting vowel "i" (since the relation is always accusative, 
right? "To discuss the project", "to discuss the user"...), and so 
have "Proyegibespik", "Gebanibespik", or, in general, "$1ibespik". 
Is that OK?

For any choice: in case, say, one of the final outputs ends up 
grammatically incorrect, can I come back here and ask for a 
correction?
Comment 12 River Tarnell 2007-05-07 14:14:38 UTC
yes, you can change it later, but it's best not to, because it will break any 
links to the old name (but links to the English name are always okay).

does this look correct?

        NS_MEDIA            => 'Nünamakanäd',
        NS_SPECIAL          => 'Patikos',
        NS_MAIN             => '',
        NS_TALK             => 'Bespik',
        NS_USER             => 'Geban',
        NS_USER_TALK        => 'Gebanibespik',
        # NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace
        NS_PROJECT_TALK     => '$1ibespik',
        NS_IMAGE            => 'Magod',
        NS_IMAGE_TALK       => 'Magodibespik',
        NS_MEDIAWIKI        => 'Sitanuns',
        NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK   => 'Sitanunsibespik',
        NS_TEMPLATE         => 'Samafomot',
        NS_TEMPLATE_TALK    => 'Samafomotibespik',
        NS_HELP             => 'Yuf',
        NS_HELP_TALK        => 'Yufibespik',
        NS_CATEGORY         => 'Klad',
        NS_CATEGORY_TALK    => 'Kladibespik',

also, the current project name is "Wikipedia" (this is also the meta namespace 
name, so the default project talk namespace would be Wikipediaibespik).  do you 
want this changed at the same time?
Comment 13 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-07 14:38:42 UTC
'Nünamakanäd' OK.
'Patikos' OK.
'Bespik' OK.
'Magod' OK.
'Geban' OK. 
'Samafomot' OK.
'Yuf' OK.
'Klad' OK.

"Project name": The other Volapükists had already decided to call 
it 'Vükiped', a name that even has an appropriate Volapük meaning 
(something like 'the keeping (of information) among (us)'). Can you 
change the project name (# NS_PROJECT, I suppose?) to 'Vükiped'?

NS_MAIN is the "Main" namespace, right? I suppose the best 
translation is something like "mainspace", which is 'Cifaspad' in 
Volapük.

On the "talk" ('bespik') categories: yes, I see already a problem 
in this list of examples. 'Sitanuns' = "system messages" (is this, 
by the way, the meaning of MediaWiki? What goes in that 
namespace?), which is a plural word; and plural words can't be the 
first part of compounds with the -i- linking vowel (they have to be 
singular). So we need something more flexible here, that can take 
plurals or (undeclinable) foreign words also. I now propose:

'bespik dö $1'  (instead of '$1ibespik')

and therfore also:

'Bespik dö geban' (User talk)
'Bespik dö magod' (Image talk)
'Bespik dö proyeg' (Project talk)
'Bespik dö sitanuns' (Mediawiki talk)
'Bespik dö samafomot' (Template talk)
'Bespik dö yuf' (Help talk)
'Bespik dö klad' (Category talk) 

By the way -- if in the future I have furher corrections, do I come 
back to this specific page (bug 8069), or do I start a new bug?
Comment 14 River Tarnell 2007-05-07 14:48:06 UTC
the MediaWiki namespace mostly stores interface messages.  there are a few 
other things (like the bad image list) which aren't messages.

the main namespace has no name, although when it's referred to it's usually 
called "(main)" (at least in English).  this is a normal message any sysop can 
change (see Special:Allmessages), not part of the namespace list.

btw, you can have different formats for each namespace, so there could be 
"Gebanibespik" but "Bespik dö sitanuns".

anyway, based on this the list now looks like:

        NS_MEDIA            => 'Nünamakanäd',
        NS_SPECIAL          => 'Patikos',
        NS_MAIN             => '',
        NS_TALK             => 'Bespik',
        NS_USER             => 'Geban',
        NS_USER_TALK        => 'Bespik_dö_geban',
        # NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace
        NS_PROJECT_TALK     => 'Bespik_dö_$1',
        NS_IMAGE            => 'Magod',
        NS_IMAGE_TALK       => 'Bespik_dö_magod',
        NS_MEDIAWIKI        => 'Sitanuns',
        NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK   => 'Bespik_dö_sitanuns',
        NS_TEMPLATE         => 'Samafomot',
        NS_TEMPLATE_TALK    => 'Bespik_dö_samafomot',
        NS_HELP             => 'Yuf',
        NS_HELP_TALK        => 'Bespik_dö_yuf',
        NS_CATEGORY         => 'Klad',
        NS_CATEGORY_TALK    => 'Bespik_dö_klad',

the sitename and metanamespace will be "Vükiped", so the project talk name will 
be "Bespik_dö_Vükiped".
Comment 15 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-08 12:33:45 UTC
OK, I see. So I'll choose the compound form in the cases in 
which it looks "sharper", and use the "bespik_dö_X" form in the 
cases where it doesn't. Then, assuming that, since the 
MediaWiki space basically stores interface messages and thus is 
reasonably translatable as "system messages" (= 'sitanuns'), my 
list would then be:

NS_MEDIA => 'Nünamakanäd',
NS_SPECIAL => 'Patikos',
NS_MAIN => '',
NS_TALK => 'Bespik',
NS_USER => 'Geban',
NS_USER_TALK => ''Gebanibespik'',
# NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace
NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1',
NS_IMAGE => 'Magod',
NS_IMAGE_TALK => 'Magodibespik',
NS_MEDIAWIKI => 'Sitanuns',
NS_MEDIAWIKI_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_sitanuns',
NS_TEMPLATE => 'Samafomot',
NS_TEMPLATE_TALK => 'Samafomotibespik',
NS_HELP => 'Yuf',
NS_HELP_TALK => 'Yufibespik',
NS_CATEGORY => 'Klad',
NS_CATEGORY_TALK => 'Kladibespik',
Comment 16 River Tarnell 2007-05-08 13:38:40 UTC
okay, that should be changed now.  let me know if anything isn't working 
right...

(you'll probably want to go through and fix any broken links)
Comment 17 spacebirdy 2007-05-08 14:01:11 UTC
(In reply to comment #16)
> okay, that should be changed now.  let me know if anything isn't working 
> right...
> 
> (you'll probably want to go through and fix any broken links)

Hello, this is now a bit of a problem, because every page which was in the
Wikipedia-namespace can't be reached anymore because Wikipedia: redirects now to
en.wiki O.o
How can this be solved? The other old namespacenames are working
http://vo.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Spacebirdy
Thanks in advance for any advice.
Comment 18 River Tarnell 2007-05-08 14:03:48 UTC
sorry, this should be fixed now.  (Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk will redirect 
to the new project namespace.)
Comment 19 spacebirdy 2007-05-08 14:14:53 UTC
(In reply to comment #18)
> sorry, this should be fixed now.  (Wikipedia and Wikipedia talk will redirect 
> to the new project namespace.)

Cool, thanks a lot.

Please could the project namespaces for Wiktionary can be set also

# NS_PROJECT set by $wgMetaNamespace
NS_PROJECT_TALK => 'Bespik_dö_$1',

"Vükivödabuk"
"Bespik_dö_Vükivödabuk".

As a precaution I already moved now all pages in ns:Wiktionary: to Vükivödabuk
in order to prevent the same thing that happend on vo.wiki.
Comment 20 River Tarnell 2007-05-08 14:19:39 UTC
okay, done.  in addition, i fix two "lost" pages on vowiki 
([[Vükiped:Sababog]], [[Vükiped:Sid]]) and one which is now duplicated, the 
"broken" one is renamed to [[Vükiped:Daväls pö kipedalef de fünam ela Wikimedia/
broken]].

because you moved pages to the new namespace, and left redirects, none of those 
could be renamed automatically (the two pages now have the same name).  either 
you can delete the redirects and i can fix them, or else i can rename those to /
broken as well.
Comment 21 spacebirdy 2007-05-08 14:27:33 UTC
(In reply to comment #20)
> okay, done.  in addition, i fix two "lost" pages on vowiki 
> ([[Vükiped:Sababog]], [[Vükiped:Sid]]) and one which is now duplicated, the 
> "broken" one is renamed to [[Vükiped:Daväls pö kipedalef de fünam ela Wikimedia/
> broken]].
> 
> because you moved pages to the new namespace, and left redirects, none of those 
> could be renamed automatically (the two pages now have the same name).  either 
> you can delete the redirects and i can fix them, or else i can rename those to /
> broken as well.

Argh, sorry for that, I can't delete since I am no sysop, we have to wait for
Smeira or Manie to do so.
Comment 22 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-08 16:18:18 UTC
OK, I'll have a look at that -- I'm sysop in both wikis. This will have to wait till tomorrow 
though -- I've got quite a busy day right now. But tomorrow I should be able to take care of it.


Comment 23 Manie Lombard 2007-05-08 18:41:25 UTC
I've deleted those eight redirects on vo-wiki :))
Comment 24 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-08 19:34:23 UTC
Danö, Manie! I will try to add a few help pages in the Vükiped 
namespace, and do other changes in the existing pages. Are there 
any loose redirects left in Vükivödabuk (Wiktionary)? I couldn't 
find any when I looked.

Thanks to the bugzilla people! A final question -- if there are 
any further problems, should we come back to this very page (Bug 
8069), or should we start a new bug?
Comment 25 spacebirdy 2007-05-08 20:35:29 UTC
No there are none left, hopefully the old pages can now be fixed.


Comment 26 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-08 21:04:06 UTC
One question: I started changing all category and image 
references from [[Category:XX]] and [[Image:XX]] to [[Klad:XX]] 
and [[Magod:XX]] (using the pywikipedia bot replace.py, with the 
option -start:!). Every time the bot fetches 50 pages, it issues 
a number of warning messages with the form:

WARNING: Outdated family file wikipedia namespace['vo'][-2] is 
set to default ('Media'), but should be 'Nünamakanäd'
(etc. one for each namespace).

Should the bugzilla people change this family file specification 
somwhere? Or should I do it somewhere on my pywikipedia folder?
Comment 27 Sérgio Meira 2007-05-08 23:33:46 UTC
Another little question: I can change e.g. [[Category:XXX...]] to 
[[Klad:XXX...]] with replace.py (from pywikipedia bots) when it 
occurs in content pages. But if it occurs in Category pages 
(e.g., the Category "Zifs in Rumän" 'cities in Romania' contains 
[[Category:Zifs]] to make it a subcategory of "Zifs" 'cities'), 
then I can't change it with replace.py. Do you happen to know 
what I should do in order to change [[Category:XX]] links 
automatically also in Category pages?
Comment 28 River Tarnell 2007-05-09 02:29:32 UTC
okay, the missing pages on vowiktionary should be back again.

pywikipedia: this isn't part of mediawiki/wikimedia... you'll need to fix that 
separately, or contact its author (i don't know anything about it).  it could 
be that not knowing about the new names is confusing it.

if there are any problems with the names of namespaces, you can reopen this 
bug, otherwise it's best to open a new one.
Comment 29 spacebirdy 2007-05-09 08:22:49 UTC
River, thanks a lot for all Your efforts!

Sérgio, You can contact me if You still need help with Your bot.

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