Last modified: 2013-07-24 14:26:28 UTC
The source editor transcludes [[MediaWiki:Editpage-head-copy-warn]] above the edit window. But this does not appear anywhere when using the visual editor. Note this is distinct from [[Mediawiki:Copyrightwarning]] which appears (in a tiny font) in the edit summary tool. The two messages are not the same and do different jobs - the first is a warning that copyrighted content is not acceptable and content must be verifiable, the second is a statement that by saving you release your contributions under cc-by-sa.
I would argue that this is somewhat extraneous; I don't think anyone actually reads it. Really it exists primarily so that when someone whines about their content being deleted, we can go "there was a notice". It undoubtedly did serve a purpose on the Good Old Days {{cn}} when our terms of service were written on a napkin - but these days Geoff and the team have produced the rather concise and all-encompassing https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use, which covers (amongst other things) copyright infringements and redistribution - and is linked to in the interface. I appreciate it's slightly more obscure than an editnotice, but it's also the approach taken by every other website on the planet: users can't really claim they were ignorant unless we're the only place on the internet they visit.
This message is part of mediawiki. If the message is extraneous, it should be removed. Until that happens, it should be part of the VE. On English Wikipedia this message includes "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable." and a prominent link to the ToS, which is otherwise tucked away down the bottom of the page.
I'm confused. Because it's part of MediaWiki core, it can't be overridden or suppressed by an extension? A large chunk of the extensions we practically use suppresses elements of core. This would seem to conflict with the practical use and applications of our extensions. Similarly, removing it would be rather unfair to, for example, third-party users, since VisualEditor and Parsoid are both extensions. We do not include them in the standard tarball. The message is useful, yes, but replicated in a form in the VE. If you've used the VE, you'll know the ToS link and release are given prominent placement, not "tucked away down the bottom of the page". The only occasions on which the ToS /are/ tucked away down the bottom of the page is in namespaces and wikis without VisualEditor/Parsoid....where editpage-head-copy-warn is not suppressed.
On the Italian Wikipedia that does not happen though, please tell me if there is anything I can do to fix this ASAP. In the past some users at itwp asked if the copyright/warning notices we use (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Wikimedia-editpage-tos-summary ) under the edit windows could be removed for experienced users, but the option was always discarded on the basis that a more prominent notice than the one in the footer was necessary for "legal" reasons (yes, people don't usually read or understand what it says anyway, but certainly they can't complain they don't get enough notice about this. And we do care a lot about this topic.) I can see the notice when I try to save on en.wp, although it is so small I almost can't read it with Monobook on Chrome, but it does not show up on it.wiki, and since I don't want patrollers to report additional copyright issues after deployment, I'd ask for advice about this. Thanks.
PS: (it's not just about copyright, in our case) http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Thread:VisualEditor/Feedback/Legal_issue:_copyright_and_other_warnings_must_be_visible_above_the_%22save%22_button Thanks.
Now resolved; thanks all :).
Resolved-Fixed -> Resolved->Invalid. What the?!
(In reply to comment #7) > Resolved-Fixed -> Resolved->Invalid. What the?! Not a bug in VisualEditor; itwiki had removed the licence information from the, err, licence information message. Oliver fixed it by editing the message to restore the licence warning. No changes to VisualEditor actually happened. We are fixing enough bugs without having to artificially inflate the numbers of how much we're doing. :-)
The problem doesnt go away because itwp deleted the message. It still exists in enwp, zhwp, viwp & hrwp, of wikis above 100,000+ pages. (fawp has a commented out notice) Possibly many more with less pages. These messages informed the user about verifiability as well as licensing issues. But if this message is truly not going to be displayed in VE, and VE is the way of the future, then the message should be deprecated and deleted from those wikis (with community consensus after explaining to them they have no other option :P), otherwise user's of VE receive less information then those of SE, for good or ill. (in this case this bug should be moved over the core component)
major->minor, so it isnt red anymore.
Er. What? As I've said, VE is an extension. Parsoid is an extension. This page is not /based/ on a MediaWiki namespace page, it is based on a string in the i8on file. To fully deprecate it we'd have to find some way of fully suppressing it or remove it completely from mediawiki. This would impact not only wikis with the VE but also those without. Moreover, I'm not sure how users receiving less information is, in this case, a problem, because I've never seen any evidence users actually /read/ those notices. I've been patrolling new pages since 2010; if CITE YOUR SOURCES! and the warning not to submit copyrighted content actually worked to inform people, I'd be the first person to hold my hands up and go "this is awesome and we need to keep it". They don't. I'm (again) closing this as a WONTFIX. If people want to dispute that, I welcome an argument made as to how having this message helps - or how silently removing it from every Wikimedia instance of MediaWiki and dealing with the resulting fallout would be an effective use of our time.
