Last modified: 2005-12-09 22:18:17 UTC

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Bug 3412 - Signature timestamps (~~~~) use user date format preference instead of default
Signature timestamps (~~~~) use user date format preference instead of default
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: Wikimedia
Classification: Unclassified
General/Unknown (Other open bugs)
unspecified
All All
: High major with 2 votes (vote)
: ---
Assigned To: Brion Vibber
:
Depends on:
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2005-09-10 00:01 UTC by dhneum
Modified: 2005-12-09 22:18 UTC (History)
4 users (show)

See Also:
Web browser: ---
Mobile Platform: ---
Assignee Huggle Beta Tester: ---


Attachments
Updates in CVS HEAD (6.64 KB, patch)
2005-09-13 07:03 UTC, Brion Vibber
Details

Description dhneum 2005-09-10 00:01:36 UTC
Wikipedia should use only the ISO international standard date/time format 
for the four-tilde signature string and logged-out skin, instead of the 
current arbitrary, mixed-up formats based on user preference. Only the 
international standard should be used because Wikipedia is for a 
worldwide audience. Date/time formats should not be arbitrary and mixed 
up within the same page (talk pages). The international standard is the 
only logical choice for an international audience; it's been very 
successfully used for many years on usenet and is easily understood 
worldwide. The international standard date/time format is as follows:  
yyyy-mm-dd, hh:mm Z, where Z stands for UTC. Please change the 
four-tilde string to use this excellent worldwide standard, instead of the 
illogical, arbitrary, mixed-up, inconsistent formats we currently have on 
Wikipedia. Thanks.
Comment 1 Brion Vibber 2005-09-10 08:22:37 UTC
Only one format is used per site, using the site's default timezone. If you 
find different behavior please include details.
Comment 2 dhneum 2005-09-10 14:53:50 UTC
Brion:  This isn't an issue about time zone, but instead regards date and 
time format.  (1) The default date and time format for Wikipedia should be 
the ISO 8601 international standard format of yyyy-mm-dd, hh:mm Z, but it 
is not. (2) Secondly, unless the user has programmed a nickname, the 
four-tilde signature string should always give the ISO 8601 international 
standard format of username, yyyy-mm-dd, hh:mm Z, but it does not. Look 
at en.wikipedia talk pages and you will see a variety of inconsistent date 
and time formats. This is bad and confusing. Please fix both of the above 
items so that they give only the international standard format of 
yyyy-mm-dd, hh:mm Z.
Comment 3 Brion Vibber 2005-09-10 22:40:48 UTC
Both 1) and 2) are false and irrelevant.

This claim about "variety" is different, please be more detailed.
Comment 4 dhneum 2005-09-12 04:49:37 UTC
Items (1) and (2) are relevant. The audience is worldwide, so the ISO 
international standard should be the default. Regarding "variety," look at 
any en.wikipedia talk pages and you'll see a variety of date and time 
formats corresponding to each person's four-tilde signature string (~~~~). 
Sometimes the day comes before the month, sometimes it comes after; 
but always the time is first (even when the user chose ISO format!), which 
is wrong. Time should always go after the date, regardless of format 
used, and should *never* be separated from time zone (same as most 
e-mail). Having this variety (this inconsistency) is bad and confusing for a 
date/time stamp. The ISO standard date/time format should be used for 
everyone's *default* four-tilde signature. Plus, time goes last in ISO 
format, not first. The ISO format is yyyy-MM-dd, hh:mm Z. It's very short and 
simple, and easily understood worldwide. Your help would be greatly 
appreciated.
Comment 5 Brion Vibber 2005-09-12 04:54:52 UTC
This seems like a bad case of
http://c2.com/cgi-bin/wiki?PersonalChoiceElevatedToMoralImperative

Can you please leave out the demand for your personal preference? The 
design of the system is that all signature timestamps will use the 
wiki's server timezone and default display format. If they are not 
consistent on a single wiki, then please report _that_ bug with 
specificity.
Comment 6 dhneum 2005-09-12 05:30:26 UTC
It appears that on en.wikipedia, the four-tilde signature date/time stamps 
do not have the same display format for all users. This can be seen on 
most any talk pages. It would be appreciated if you could make these 
inconsistent signature formats consistent. Thanks.
Comment 7 dhneum 2005-09-12 05:39:53 UTC
It appears that on en.wikipedia, the four-tilde signature date/time stamps 
do not have the same display format for all users. This can be seen on 
most any talk pages. It would be appreciated if you could make these 
inconsistent signature formats consistent. Thanks.
Comment 8 Brion Vibber 2005-09-12 05:44:06 UTC
Problem:
While ~~~~ signature timestamps are inserted with the wiki's default 
time zone for consistency, the date seems to be laid out according to 
the user preference instead of the default. This produces 
inconsistent output, which can be distracting.

Actual results:
Here's a sample of some datestamps collected from the 
en.wikipedia.org tech Village Pump:

09:30, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
20:04, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
01:16, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
01:16, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
19:12, 2005 September 2 (UTC)
19:28, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Expected results:
All inserted datestamps should use the default date format to be 
consistent.
Comment 9 dhneum 2005-09-12 05:58:03 UTC
Well said. And another signature timestamp you'll sometimes see, to add 
to your above list, is:

05:50:41, 2005-09-12 (UTC)

even though the user chose ISO in his/her user preference; i.e., 
2005-09-12, 05:50.
Comment 10 dhneum 2005-09-12 14:15:57 UTC
And notice that all of the wikipedia timestamps listed above are not only 
inconsistent, but also all of them are backwards regarding the time 
position. In the normal, international format (yyyy-mm-dd, hh:mm Z), time 
is last, instead of first. Since something needs to be changed to make 
these timestamp formats consistent, I would like to also request that you 
change all of them to the ISO 8601 international standard. The ISO format 
is the normal, international standard for a timestamp. Thanks.
Comment 11 dhneum 2005-09-12 14:57:04 UTC
Footnote to comment #10:  And time being last isn't limited to ISO format. 
Time is invariably last in any e-mail. So having time last instead of first is 
the normal standard, again pointing toward the ISO format as the normal, 
international standard for a timestamp. Thanks.
Comment 12 Brion Vibber 2005-09-12 19:53:21 UTC
I asked you to stop pushing your personal preferences about formatting 
on this bug. Please try to stay on-topic.
Comment 13 Brion Vibber 2005-09-13 07:03:00 UTC
Created attachment 882 [details]
Updates in CVS HEAD

Language::dateFormat()'s functioning was out of sync with doc comments, and
incorrect usage in compound functions (eg Language::timeanddate()) caused it to
ignore the default-format option used in sig formatting.

Cleaned up comments and usage to make this work correctly; also defined some
constants for the internal format codes to make things more legible and
combined some duplicate code.

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