Last modified: 2011-03-22 16:38:08 UTC

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Bug 28077 - All *-list message for special pages should have PLURAL support
All *-list message for special pages should have PLURAL support
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: MediaWiki extensions
Classification: Unclassified
FlaggedRevs (Other open bugs)
unspecified
All All
: Normal enhancement with 1 vote (vote)
: ---
Assigned To: Nobody - You can work on this!
: easy, i18n
Depends on:
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2011-03-16 17:34 UTC by Purodha Blissenbach
Modified: 2011-03-22 16:38 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Web browser: ---
Mobile Platform: ---
Assignee Huggle Beta Tester: ---


Attachments

Description Purodha Blissenbach 2011-03-16 17:34:49 UTC
The message MediaWiki:pendingchanges-list is used in specialpages/PendingChanges_body.php and needs PLURAL support
on the number of items in the list.

It is documented having a parameter $1 giving the list length,
but this parameter is not used in reality.

Please keep message documentations in sync with code changes!
Comment 1 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-16 22:10:57 UTC
The message doesn't reference the number of items in the list, and I don't really want it it to either. The docs should just be updated.

I'm not really sure who maintains the qqq messages used by translatewiki. It's on the todo list to take over that.
Comment 2 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-16 22:14:00 UTC
qqq message update in r84125.
Comment 3 Purodha Blissenbach 2011-03-16 22:16:59 UTC
The message MediaWiki:reviewedpages-list has the same problem.
Comment 4 Purodha Blissenbach 2011-03-16 22:24:14 UTC
The issue is not to have a number in the message but to have the correct
grammar.
Grammar in some language is different for varying numbers. Even in English, you
have to differenciate between "This list shows the page/pages having this
propery." 

i.e. PLURAL support is inevitable for both messages.
Comment 5 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-16 22:51:33 UTC
(In reply to comment #4)
> The issue is not to have a number in the message but to have the correct
> grammar.
> Grammar in some language is different for varying numbers. Even in English, you
> have to differenciate between "This list shows the page/pages having this
> propery." 
> 
> i.e. PLURAL support is inevitable for both messages.

Not for English (depending on the wording), but it might be harder in others. What I want the message to convey is what the page lists in general (i.e. "all pages where X") and not what happens to be in it ("these pages have X").

If this is done, it would be easier (code wise) to move the message below the form but above the list. PLURAL would also have to be added to all the form legends too.
Comment 6 Mark A. Hershberger 2011-03-16 23:17:52 UTC
(In reply to comment #1)
> I'm not really sure who maintains the qqq messages used by translatewiki. It's
> on the todo list to take over that.

The committer who changes a message that has a corresponding qqq message should update the qqq message.
Comment 7 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-17 05:56:17 UTC
(In reply to comment #5)
> (In reply to comment #4)
> > The issue is not to have a number in the message but to have the correct
> > grammar.
> > Grammar in some language is different for varying numbers. Even in English, you
> > have to differenciate between "This list shows the page/pages having this
> > propery." 
> > 
> > i.e. PLURAL support is inevitable for both messages.
> 
> Not for English (depending on the wording), but it might be harder in others.
> What I want the message to convey is what the page lists in general (i.e. "all
> pages where X") and not what happens to be in it ("these pages have X").
>

Or in another words, I want the text to be explanatory, to convey what the list "does" or what it is for.
Comment 8 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-17 16:10:15 UTC
(In reply to comment #5)
> (In reply to comment #4)
> If this is done, it would be easier (code wise) to move the message below the
> form but above the list. PLURAL would also have to be added to all the form
> legends too.

And by *this* I mean *this request*, not what I was just saying before that :)
Comment 9 Purodha Blissenbach 2011-03-20 17:28:54 UTC
The message MediaWiki:Problemchanges-list is of the same kind, and also needs PLURAL support.
Comment 10 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-20 17:38:06 UTC
(In reply to comment #9)
> The message MediaWiki:Problemchanges-list is of the same kind, and also needs
> PLURAL support.

Why is PLURAL needed to explain what the list does? Shouldn't that be independent of what happens to be there now?
Comment 11 Purodha Blissenbach 2011-03-21 09:22:07 UTC
MediaWiki:Configuredpages-list also needs PLURAL support.
Comment 12 Purodha Blissenbach 2011-03-21 10:12:31 UTC
> Why is PLURAL needed to explain what the list does? Shouldn't that be
> independent of what happens to be there now?

Because " 1 file(s) copied. " is considered bad style, which is why we got PLURAL.

You can of course likely find wordings that wind around the use of PLURAL in many or maybe even all languages. I bet, some are clumsy, unnecessarily long, and considered completely ridiculous, since they are not made in a way, people usually speak or think.

We _are_ not talking about an absteract list of unknown content and length here. The list is shown on the same page. In my language, Colognian, people burst out in laughter, when you introduce a list of one item with a length agnostic sentence -- even though this sentence was perfect, when talking about a list which is not visible, but e.g. presented on another page.

I also do not understand programmatical reasons for avoiding PLURAL. What keeps one from computing all constituents first, and once they are known, create all outputs with all data at hand in a second step? Lazyness? Imho it is usually better, to use a more structured programming style of easily identifyable separate steps.
Comment 13 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-21 11:00:07 UTC
It's not hard to use PLURAL, $pager already can have numRows() called before output. FlaggedRevs is littered with PLURAL use - it's not a problem anywhere.

"This lists contains the page where..." is awkward in English and seems to presuppose that there can only be one page (oddly, mentioning the actual number is less weird in that sense). I've never found it laughable for special pages to say "the pages" and then have 1 item.

The count can be passed in, and just used for other languages with different conventions, though. What about the <legend> message in the form <fieldset>?
Comment 14 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-21 11:07:00 UTC
Well, it's funny sometimes: http://www.snpp.com/episodes/8F09.html
"Attention workers, we have completed our evaluation of the plant. We regret to announce the following lay-offs, which I will read in alphabetical order:
     Simpson, Homer.
That is all."
Comment 15 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-21 14:58:04 UTC
Count passed into *-list messages in r84446, r84447. I left the <legend> messages alone.
Comment 16 Aaron Schulz 2011-03-22 16:38:08 UTC
(In reply to comment #15)
> Count passed into *-list messages in r84446, r84447. I left the <legend>
> messages alone.

Actually, since the legend refers to what an unperformed action will do, then nothing is needed there. The -list messages are done now. Closing.

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