Last modified: 2009-05-26 16:08:57 UTC
Now that Bug 18761 has become a more general bug, I have an additional ideas: 1) the gender question should only appear by default when it is detected that the language being used will use such info, e.g., not English, not Chinese, etc. I.e., the language is on the list of languages that need this question. 2) it be clearly marked "The system wants to know your gender, so that it can use the correct grammatical gender in pronouns referring to you." (and not some general survey or dating club etc. provoking endless curiosity and political correctness arguments.) (Of course there should also be a way to still turn it on if indeed this is DateWiki.)
(In reply to comment #0) > Now that Bug 18761 has become a more general bug, I have an additional > ideas: 1) the gender question should only appear by default when it is > detected that the language being used will use such info, e.g., not > English, not Chinese, etc. I.e., the language is on the list of > languages that need this question. Agreed, several languages have no use for this. Make sure to base it on user language and not content language. > 2) it be clearly marked "The system wants > to know your gender, so that it can use the correct grammatical gender > in pronouns referring to you." (and not some general survey or dating > club etc. provoking endless curiosity and political correctness > arguments.) (Of course there should also be a way to still turn it on > if indeed this is DateWiki.) > I think languages that require gender pretty much understand why, especially when it's in the context of language selection. Don't really think we need to make a long description detailing why.
The problem with this is that users might not use the content language. For instance, on Wikimedia Commons, the content language is English, and my interface language is set to English. But another user might have their interface language set to German, and therefore might prefer if I *did* give my gender, so that if GENDER works in log entries, say, it would use the correct gender there. In fact, maybe a very large fraction of users are using gendered languages -- we can't say for sure. If GENDER currently only works for the current user, this isn't a very good argument, though. But I don't think it does much *harm* for most wikis in non-gendered languages, anyway. People will assume it's just a statistical question (and it could be used as that).
I don't get it. Shouldn't just: software detects he has set German in his preferences, so the gender question appears for him in his preferences, as German is on the list of gender-needing-languages. As you have English in your preferences, you would never see the question. Isn't that all hunky dory? If the $wgLanguageCode for the site was German, then all users would see the question, until they e.g., picked English in their preferences, whereupon the question would no longer appear. > But I don't think it does much *harm* for most wikis in non-gendered > languages, anyway. People will assume it's just a statistical question > (and it could be used as that). No no no, you are wading into highly charged waters. If you show it be sure there some words as to what is on your minds, else it looks very politically incorrect, even not on my http://transgender-taiwan.org/ wiki. Also unless you say why you are gathering such information, people will think: Hey, why are you asking Gladys her gender, but not me?! (Oh, all along Gladys had chosen a different language, and it had nothing to do with workplace rights, so there is no need to sue the company! So be sure to state what is going on, else endless arguments (like these ones I've started, for your own good, to prevent bigger ones later) will ensue.)
(In reply to comment #3) > I don't get it. Shouldn't just: software detects he has set German in > his preferences, so the gender question appears for him in his > preferences, as German is on the list of gender-needing-languages. Please read the following again: (In reply to comment #2) > The problem with this is that users might not use the content language. For > instance, on Wikimedia Commons, the content language is English, and my > interface language is set to English. But another user might have their > interface language set to German, and therefore might prefer if I *did* give my > gender, so that if GENDER works in log entries, say, it would use the correct > gender there. In fact, maybe a very large fraction of users are using gendered > languages -- we can't say for sure. The grammatical gender of other users is also relevant, nor only your own.
Note also that the optional gender setting could be useful for non-grammatical features such as selection of default avatar images, should we end up with such a thing.
> The grammatical gender of other users is also relevant, nor only your own. Oops, yes, forgot. Which reminds me, Chinese indeed has a gender layer that could be implemented, in bug 18847 that I opened and set to block this bug, to be sure Chinese is included on the list of languages where gender indeed matters. (But no yucky gender questions for my wikis! Thank goodness for bug #18761.)
This would also destroy the functionality of the {{GENDER:user}} magic word in its use in the wider wiki, eg automatic grammar switching in userboxes, etc. GENDER should either be on for all users, or off for all users. Which is what can now be achieved with $wgHiddenPreferences.
I'm impressed by what can be done with this e.g., bug 18847, so much, and I suppose prefs-help-gender is grudgingly adequate explanation, so WORKSFORME. Thanks. Bye.
