Last modified: 2013-10-30 09:27:06 UTC

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Bug 11130 - Preference to toggle edit tools
Preference to toggle edit tools
Status: REOPENED
Product: MediaWiki
Classification: Unclassified
Page editing (Other open bugs)
unspecified
All All
: Low enhancement with 8 votes (vote)
: ---
Assigned To: Nobody - You can work on this!
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?t...
:
Depends on:
Blocks: edit-toolbar
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2007-08-31 01:37 UTC by Dan Jacobson
Modified: 2013-10-30 09:27 UTC (History)
10 users (show)

See Also:
Web browser: ---
Mobile Platform: ---
Assignee Huggle Beta Tester: ---


Attachments

Description Dan Jacobson 2007-08-31 01:37:07 UTC
Can you please offer a way to turn off that god-awful following stuff that gets sent to one's browser on every edit?
Also don't make the solution dependent on javascript or stylesheets. Check a prefernce cookie or whatever if you must, and then don't send it down the phone lines in the first place -- and over again fresh for every edit too... yuck.
Offer users who wish not these acres of stuff, instead a link to a cheatsheet, that they can click if they feel the need.  Urg... how unprofessional -- its like your driving school instructor must sit next to you for the rest of your life... and he's heavy and weighting down his side of the car too...

Insert: – — … ° ≈ ≠ ≤ ≥ ± − × ÷ ← → · §  Sign your username: ~~~~

Wiki markup: {{}}   |   []   [[]]   [[Category:]]   #REDIRECT [[]]   <s></s>   <sup></sup>   <sub></sub>   <code></code>   <blockquote></blockquote>   <ref></ref>   {{Reflist}}   <references/>   <includeonly></includeonly>   <noinclude></noinclude>   {{DEFAULTSORT:}}   <nowiki></nowiki>   <!-- -->  <span class="plainlinks"></span>  •  (templates)
Symbols: ~ | ¡ ¿ † ‡ ↔ ↑ ↓ • ¶   # ¹ ² ³ ½ ⅓ ⅔ ¼ ¾ ⅛ ⅜ ⅝ ⅞ ∞   ‘ “ ’ ”   ¤ ₳ ฿ ₵ ¢ ₡ ₢ $ ₫ ₯ € ₠ ₣ ƒ ₴ ₭ ₤ ℳ ₥ ₦ ₧ ₰ £ ៛ ₨ ₪ ৳ ₮ ₩ ¥   ♠ ♣ ♥ ♦
Characters: Á á Ć ć É é Í í Ĺ ĺ Ń ń Ó ó Ŕ ŕ Ś ś Ú ú Ý ý Ź ź   À à È è Ì ì Ò ò Ù ù    â Ĉ ĉ Ê ê Ĝ ĝ Ĥ ĥ Î î Ĵ ĵ Ô ô Ŝ ŝ Û û Ŵ ŵ Ŷ ŷ   Ä ä Ë ë Ï ï Ö ö Ü ü Ÿ ÿ   ß   à ã Ẽ ẽ Ĩ ĩ Ñ ñ Õ õ Ũ ũ Ỹ ỹ   Ç ç Ģ ģ Ķ ķ Ļ ļ Ņ ņ Ŗ ŗ Ş ş Ţ ţ   Đ đ   Ů ů   Ǎ ǎ Č č Ď ď Ě ě Ǐ ǐ Ľ ľ Ň ň Ǒ ǒ Ř ř Š š Ť ť Ǔ ǔ Ž ž   Ā ā Ē ē Ī ī Ō ō Ū ū Ȳ ȳ Ǣ ǣ   ǖ ǘ ǚ ǜ   Ă ă Ĕ ĕ Ğ ğ Ĭ ĭ Ŏ ŏ Ŭ ŭ   Ċ ċ Ė ė Ġ ġ İ ı Ż ż   Ą ą Ę ę Į į Ǫ ǫ Ų ų   Ḍ ḍ Ḥ ḥ Ḷ ḷ Ḹ ḹ Ṃ ṃ Ṇ ṇ Ṛ ṛ Ṝ ṝ Ṣ ṣ Ṭ ṭ   Ł ł   Ő ő Ű ű   Ŀ ŀ   Ħ ħ   Ð ð Þ þ   Œ œ   Æ æ Ø ø Å å   Ə ə  •  {{Unicode|}}
Greek: Ά ά Έ έ Ή ή Ί ί Ό ό Ύ ύ Ώ ώ   Α α Β β Γ γ Δ δ   Ε ε Ζ ζ Η η Θ θ   Ι ι Κ κ Λ λ Μ μ   Ν ν Ξ ξ Ο ο Π π   Ρ ρ Σ σ ς Τ τ Υ υ   Φ φ Χ χ Ψ ψ Ω ω  •  {{Polytonic|}}  •  (polytonic list)
Cyrillic: А а Б б В в Г г   Ґ ґ Ѓ ѓ Д д Ђ ђ   Е е Ё ё Є є Ж ж   З з Ѕ ѕ И и І і   Ї ї Й й Ј ј К к   Ќ ќ Л л Љ љ М м   Н н Њ њ О о П п   Р р С с Т т Ћ ћ   У у Ў ў Ф ф Х х   Ц ц Ч ч Џ џ Ш ш   Щ щ Ъ ъ Ы ы Ь ь   Э э Ю ю Я я  
IPA: t̪ d̪ ʈ ɖ ɟ ɡ ɢ ʡ ʔ   ɸ ʃ ʒ ɕ ʑ ʂ ʐ ʝ ɣ ʁ ʕ ʜ ʢ ɦ   ɱ ɳ ɲ ŋ ɴ   ʋ ɹ ɻ ɰ   ʙ ʀ ɾ ɽ   ɫ ɬ ɮ ɺ ɭ ʎ ʟ   ɥ ʍ ɧ   ɓ ɗ ʄ ɠ ʛ   ʘ ǀ ǃ ǂ ǁ   ɨ ʉ ɯ   ɪ ʏ ʊ   ɘ ɵ ɤ   ə ɚ   ɛ ɜ ɝ ɞ ʌ ɔ   ɐ ɶ ɑ ɒ   ʰ ʷ ʲ ˠ ˤ ⁿ ˡ   ˈ ˌ ː ˑ ̪   •  {{IPA|}}
Comment 1 Aryeh Gregor (not reading bugmail, please e-mail directly) 2007-08-31 01:39:54 UTC
This is a problem with [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] on the English Wikipedia (or other Wikipedias), not a problem with MediaWiki or site configuration.  Ask the sysops on the appropriate wiki to change that message.
Comment 2 Dan Jacobson 2007-08-31 01:44:09 UTC
Indeed, have those symbols available instead in the already present "Editing
help (opens in new window)" link.

Anyway, many programs have "experienced user" or "advanced" settings to cut off
the training wheel baggage, please.

> This is a problem with [[MediaWiki:Edittools]] on the English Wikipedia

OK, I'll take it there. Thanks.
Comment 3 Matt 2007-08-31 01:49:11 UTC
I think the request is to create a preference to disable edittools completely
Comment 4 Dan Jacobson 2007-08-31 02:01:41 UTC
Yes, sounds like what I wrote in
[[MediaWiki_talk:Edittools#Allow_users_to_not_swollow_it_down_the_phone_lines_in_the_first_place]].
How you do it I leave up to the pros.
Comment 5 Aryeh Gregor (not reading bugmail, please e-mail directly) 2007-08-31 02:17:08 UTC
Edittools currently contains things other than tools, on enwiki at least, but it might be a good idea to allow turning it off anyway.  Normally we don't like having too many user preferences, however, and it *is* gzipped in transit if your browser supports that.  Not sure if we want preference clutter for this.
Comment 6 Dan Jacobson 2007-08-31 02:31:26 UTC
Indeed, as it is "edittools" and not "obligatory legal notice
that needs to be sent fail safe on each request",
there should be a way to stop having it sent.

And that some sites (wikipedia) have stuck some seeming legal jazz on
the end of it is thier own fault, as it is clearly named "edittools".

But then they will figure out a way of bloating some other thing that
people can't turn off from wastefully coming down the wires.

If it were in a separate file one could stop from being requested with
proxy tools like wwwoffle. But then again, using that when editing is
no fun.

>  Not sure if we want preference clutter for this.

A one time pain will save a year of bytes down the drain. Plus often
there is so much crud accumulated, one can hardly find where one was
editing.

Anyways also a through review is due of the bloat coming down the
lines in terms of what can be moved into helper .js and .css pages, so
people who don't use js or css won't be burdened byte wise. Or maybe
the static stuff has been already moved there.
Comment 7 Eysteinn Gudni Gudnason 2007-09-15 06:55:20 UTC
A different approach would be that you could deside yourself (in your preferences) what exactly is displayed in the edittools. For example, I never use <blockquote>, but I use {{}}, and I would like to have {{{}}} and {}. This can be done with js, but it would be nice if people that can't write js can do this stuff without any help. 
Comment 8 Matt 2007-09-17 03:44:39 UTC
The problem is, the format is different on all wikis, so you couldnt selectively hide. Maybe turn off edittools and jave a second edittools available per-user?
Comment 9 Eysteinn Gudni Gudnason 2007-09-17 03:50:49 UTC
(In reply to comment #8)
> The problem is, the format is different on all wikis, so you couldnt
> selectively hide. Maybe turn off edittools and jave a second edittools
> available per-user?
> 
Something like the user javascript
Comment 10 Andrew Dunbar 2007-12-09 10:01:54 UTC
I had a plan to implement this using Ajax since one or two years ago.

But an Ajax-only solution wouldn't be good for people without JavaScript who do want these special symbols and tools.

Rather than a preferences page I had thought about something like MediaWiki:Sidebar but in a user subpage that each user could edit. Of course this would only appeal to technical type users.
Comment 11 Paul Kaganer 2007-12-17 18:10:15 UTC
The ability to disable Edittools it may be necessary in any project - see e.g. diff on MediaWiki.org: http://www.mediawiki.org/w/index.php?diff=154319&oldid=154116
Comment 12 Brion Vibber 2007-12-18 01:39:14 UTC
(In reply to comment #10)
> I had a plan to implement this using Ajax since one or two years ago.
> 
> But an Ajax-only solution wouldn't be good for people without JavaScript who do
> want these special symbols and tools.

They depend on JavaScript to begin with...
Comment 13 Dan Jacobson 2007-12-18 04:38:31 UTC
> They depend on JavaScript to begin with...
Therefore they [all that gunk] has no business coming down the phone line for users
who have turned javascript off.  Its natural place is in an additional .js file,
and not the page itself.
Comment 14 Andrew Dunbar 2007-12-18 23:16:25 UTC
The English Wiktionary has an Ajax implementation of Edit Tools for the search box. It's a hack but proof it's not so hard to pull off. To see it in action go to http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Connel%20MacKenzie/Preferences
The source code is at: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/User:Connel_MacKenzie/keypad.js

Ajax is definitely the way to go for this already JavaScript-only feature. See also the older Bug 9754, "Customisable per-user edit tools"
Comment 15 Dan Jacobson 2008-02-27 01:33:05 UTC
Or maybe dump all those wacky characters into a
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Toolbar
or something. Anyway, all those characters are also Euro-centric.
Comment 16 Dan Jacobson 2008-03-15 05:01:45 UTC
Or if you insist on having all those never-used-in-a-lifetime
characters hauled around wherever you go like some kind of alphabet
set for children, you might as well make them into plain strips for copy-and-paste: 
ÁáĆćÉéÍíĹĺŃńÓóŔশÚúÝýŹź, with no links involved. 
(Are you guys trying to make a world record, the most links for the
least link text? Yes, you sure figured out the right way, march
through lots of UTF-8 single characters.)

This would cut down some on the giant bulk,
and those links won't work anyway if one has
javascript turned off. Anyway, all this is best gotten by the user
clicking "Editing help (opens in new window)".

Comment 17 Charlotte Webb 2008-05-02 16:03:05 UTC
(In reply to comment #5)
> Normally we don't like having too many user preferences, however, and it *is*
> gzipped in transit if your browser supports that.

I don't care if it is printed on microfilm, it still takes too fucking long to load.

> Not sure if we want preference clutter for this.

I realize that the bloatware problem is probably unique to enwiki, but if we can't allow users to selectively disable problematically huge system messages, and if certain communities habitually reject requests that involve reducing interface clutter, could you at least create a "monobook-light" skin which uses the MediaWiki default for every system message.

Note edittool crapflooding was part of the problem observed in [[bugzilla:13130]] (ironically similar tracking number, hmm...)

Charlotte J. Webb
Comment 18 Dan Jacobson 2008-07-31 12:45:52 UTC
Help, now commons has all the babyfood characters spewing forth too.

There should be a preference, so all wikis can
*inject a file full of beginner help (as seen on en, commons).
and all (power) users (with less than extra wideband connections) can
*turn off that silliness.
Comment 19 Danny B. 2009-02-24 18:12:20 UTC
Bug 17647 related.
Comment 20 Michael Zajac 2009-04-27 20:53:21 UTC
On English Wiktionary this bloats a 24 kB edit page to 245 kB.  Even zipped, this more than doubles the size of transmitted HTML from about 8 kB to 20 kB.  

It's pointless to send this to every editor including those who can't use it without javascript.  This is a content management system after all, so can we manage the non-content just a bit?
Comment 21 Helder 2010-10-17 02:53:29 UTC
(In reply to comment #15)
> Or maybe dump all those wacky characters into a
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Toolbar
> or something. Anyway, all those characters are also Euro-centric.

Could anyone do this with the enhanced toolbar from usability initiative, as pointed by Naoko in August 6th, 2009?
http://techblog.wikimedia.org/2009/08/try-the-usability-beta

See also:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Edittools#Duplication_of_special_characters
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_talk:Edittools#Duplication_of_special_characters
Comment 22 Helder 2010-10-17 03:02:21 UTC
See also this:
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=17647#c5
Comment 23 Helder 2011-06-07 19:10:35 UTC
Any updates on this?
Comment 24 Michael Zajac 2011-06-07 20:54:01 UTC
Editing tools are browser and OS features. If a website wants to provide an alternative, that's fine, as long as it is optional. Please. Let's just add a toggle switch to eliminate this stuff. 

Not only is it clutter and bloat, but it's far inferior to my OS tools.
Comment 25 Krinkle 2011-06-07 21:04:24 UTC
As of 1.17 and the WikiEditor extension, Edittools can, should or is in the toolbar of the editor (rather than taking up space below the editor). You can hide it by collapsing (if not already) that part of the editor.
Comment 26 Danny B. 2012-06-16 16:27:04 UTC
Bug 37657 related.

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